4 ms·

“We've covered our sponge up”: Harvey reveals problem decades in the making

14 points by Mz 9y ago

Clubber 9y ago
"This is what climate scientists have been telling us would happen," he said. "Absolutely, it's a game changer." I have my doubts this will be a game changer in any meaningful way.
- sand500 9y ago
  It will make flood insurance costs rise.
jnwatson 9y ago
Put 50 inches of rain on any populated coast in the world, and you're going to see mass destruction.
- bobjordan 9y ago
  Hong Kong and Southern China is getting ready to absorb their third Typhoon in three weeks. They just take a day off work and then dust off and get back to work the next day.
  - foobarchu 9y ago
    It's not about the typhoon/hurricane, it's about the rainfall and flooding. If you look at rainfall amounts from similar typhoons, they all ended up causing billions of dollars of destruction, and in older cases hundreds of casualties. This would cause just as many issues in south china as it is in Houston, especially when you consider that fast-paced Chinese building patterns are probably even worse about covering up natural drainage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_tropical_cyclone_rainfall_climatology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_tropical_cyclone_rainfal... I will concede that pacific typhoons have much higher record rainfall amounts, but 50in peak accumulation is by no means 'normal' for them either.
  - MR4D 9y ago
    Hong Kong isn't flat. Water drains easily into the sea. Houston is __FLAT__ water doesn't drain nearly as well. I live in Houston. There are many problems to solve here, but your comparison is not relevant. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Hong_Kong https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Hong_Kong
    - bobjordan 9y ago
      It may be more comparable if you refer to your geography a few miles inland from the islands of Hong Kong to the city of Shenzhen and indeed the 20+ million people living in the Pearl River Delta. This is the totality of the area that I referenced. It's a delta and port, flat all around, just like Houston. Further, I also own a home in Houston, so I'm in full command of the comparison. There are plenty of things that Houston can learn from this area about infrastructure and flood control.
      - MR4D 9y ago
        Thanks for the clarification - I'll have to check it out.
technofiend 9y ago
Houston famously has almost no zoning laws and is extremely developer friendly and car-oriented. To the point where a developer friendly mayor managed to knock us back thirty years in terms of mass transit, completely blocking a rail plan because the critics envisioned it sending people past their malls and new housing developments. It's also a very large metropolitan area thanks to a city charter that originally granted it broad annexation powers. The city proper is ~600 sq/mi or 1560 km^2. So there's not one single solution to our paving over arable land or water management. Realistically we should probably buy out people living behind / upstream Addicks Reservoir and rebuild the dam from just rammed earth with concrete caps to something larger and stronger. The dam was overtopped by this storm and Army Corps of Engineers had to release water from the reservoir due to concerns about that and preventing it overtopping in the "wrong" spot. See http://i.imgur.com/usZAici.jpg http://i.imgur.com/usZAici.jpg Since this storm is potentially the new norm expanding the area to catch and hold water is most likely the right path, but there's almost zero chance it'll actually happen.

14 points by Mz 9y ago

"This is what climate scientists have been telling us would happen," he said. "Absolutely, it's a game changer." I have my doubts this will be a game changer in any meaningful way.

sand500 9y ago
It will make flood insurance costs rise.

jnwatson 9y ago

Put 50 inches of rain on any populated coast in the world, and you're going to see mass destruction.

bobjordan 9y ago
Hong Kong and Southern China is getting ready to absorb their third Typhoon in three weeks. They just take a day off work and then dust off and get back to work the next day.
- foobarchu 9y ago
  It's not about the typhoon/hurricane, it's about the rainfall and flooding. If you look at rainfall amounts from similar typhoons, they all ended up causing billions of dollars of destruction, and in older cases hundreds of casualties. This would cause just as many issues in south china as it is in Houston, especially when you consider that fast-paced Chinese building patterns are probably even worse about covering up natural drainage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_tropical_cyclone_rainfall_climatology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_tropical_cyclone_rainfal... I will concede that pacific typhoons have much higher record rainfall amounts, but 50in peak accumulation is by no means 'normal' for them either.
- MR4D 9y ago
  Hong Kong isn't flat. Water drains easily into the sea. Houston is __FLAT__ water doesn't drain nearly as well. I live in Houston. There are many problems to solve here, but your comparison is not relevant. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Hong_Kong https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Hong_Kong
  - bobjordan 9y ago
    It may be more comparable if you refer to your geography a few miles inland from the islands of Hong Kong to the city of Shenzhen and indeed the 20+ million people living in the Pearl River Delta. This is the totality of the area that I referenced. It's a delta and port, flat all around, just like Houston. Further, I also own a home in Houston, so I'm in full command of the comparison. There are plenty of things that Houston can learn from this area about infrastructure and flood control.
    - MR4D 9y ago
      Thanks for the clarification - I'll have to check it out.

technofiend 9y ago

Houston famously has almost no zoning laws and is extremely developer friendly and car-oriented. To the point where a developer friendly mayor managed to knock us back thirty years in terms of mass transit, completely blocking a rail plan because the critics envisioned it sending people past their malls and new housing developments. It's also a very large metropolitan area thanks to a city charter that originally granted it broad annexation powers. The city proper is ~600 sq/mi or 1560 km^2. So there's not one single solution to our paving over arable land or water management. Realistically we should probably buy out people living behind / upstream Addicks Reservoir and rebuild the dam from just rammed earth with concrete caps to something larger and stronger. The dam was overtopped by this storm and Army Corps of Engineers had to release water from the reservoir due to concerns about that and preventing it overtopping in the "wrong" spot. See http://i.imgur.com/usZAici.jpg http://i.imgur.com/usZAici.jpg Since this storm is potentially the new norm expanding the area to catch and hold water is most likely the right path, but there's almost zero chance it'll actually happen.