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Who said anything about Bitcoin?

DonHopkins 9y ago
"Massive amounts of electronic litter" and "amazing how technology has advanced" into a mad rush to waste resources and energy reminded me of this fire, and all the obsolete PC's and GPU's and ASIC's and coal power plants littering the landscape due to Bitcoin mining: https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-mining-facility/ https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-... https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/ https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-larges... Bitcoin mining consumes enormous amounts of electricity, which is why miners seek out locations that offer cheap energy. The Ordos mine was set up in 2014, making it China’s oldest large-scale bitcoin mining facility. Bitmain acquired it in 2015. It’s powered by electricity mostly from coal-fired power plants. Its daily electricity bill amounts to $39,000. Bitmain also operates other mines in China’s remote areas, like the mountainous Yunnan province in the south and the autonomous region of Xinjiang in the west. http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-plants/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-p... Coal is a killer in China. Coal burning and the secondary effects of sulfate and nitrate contribute to almost half of the dangerous air pollutants in China's polluted cities, compared to 20% from car emissions.
- andrepd 9y ago
  That (i) is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and (ii) a completely fallacious argument, since Bitcoin mining amounts to less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption, providing a useful service in return (compare with gold mining, which is actual mindless busywork and consumes way more energy than Bitcoin does.
  - will_brown 9y ago
    As you type away your response on a smartphone or computer that contains gold (and other mined precious metals).
    - andrepd 9y ago
      The gold used in industry amounts to only 5% of gold mined. The vast majority of gold is not mined for "practical" use.
  - semperdark 9y ago
    > less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption Actually, it's 0.08% and rising. The energy for 1 transaction could power almost 6 U.S. homes for a full day. https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
    - DonHopkins 9y ago
      #Bitcoin enables Chinese entrepreneurs to export coal by burning it and using the energy to mine. — Emin Gün Sirer (@el33th4xor) July 20, 2015 https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ Gold mining doesn't provide a useful service in return, huh? As will_brown pointed out, Bitcoin isn't a necessary ingredient in smartphones, electronics, jewelry, medicine, dentistry, aerospace, glassmaking, like gold is. http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml Forget about US homes: How many homes in underdeveloped countries could one Bitcoin transaction power?
      - andrepd 9y ago
        Only about 5% of gold is used in industry. The rest is stored as bullion or used in jewellery.
        DonHopkins 9y ago
        You sound very confident with using strong words like "absolutely irrelevant" and "completely fallacious" and "actual mindless busywork" and definitive quantities like "less than 0.01%", when it turns out that your numbers are off by almost an order of magnitude base 10 or three orders of magnitude base 2. So they're only burning eight times more coal than you claim (and rising). You're saying that because worldwide production of gold is so small and insignificant and practically useless compared to Bitcoin, and since only 5% is used for anything but bullion or jewelry, it doesn't matter and it's absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand that the smartphone and computer that you're using contains and depends on gold? If not for gold, then how would you be communicating your strong confident words and impressive sounding but inaccurate numbers with us? Do you use bitcoin in your smartphone instead of gold? Where did you get your "less than 0.01%" number and your gold-free smartphone? Is it made of clay?

"Massive amounts of electronic litter" and "amazing how technology has advanced" into a mad rush to waste resources and energy reminded me of this fire, and all the obsolete PC's and GPU's and ASIC's and coal power plants littering the landscape due to Bitcoin mining: https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-mining-facility/ https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-... https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/ https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-larges... Bitcoin mining consumes enormous amounts of electricity, which is why miners seek out locations that offer cheap energy. The Ordos mine was set up in 2014, making it China’s oldest large-scale bitcoin mining facility. Bitmain acquired it in 2015. It’s powered by electricity mostly from coal-fired power plants. Its daily electricity bill amounts to $39,000. Bitmain also operates other mines in China’s remote areas, like the mountainous Yunnan province in the south and the autonomous region of Xinjiang in the west. http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-plants/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-p... Coal is a killer in China. Coal burning and the secondary effects of sulfate and nitrate contribute to almost half of the dangerous air pollutants in China's polluted cities, compared to 20% from car emissions.

andrepd 9y ago
That (i) is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and (ii) a completely fallacious argument, since Bitcoin mining amounts to less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption, providing a useful service in return (compare with gold mining, which is actual mindless busywork and consumes way more energy than Bitcoin does.
- will_brown 9y ago
  As you type away your response on a smartphone or computer that contains gold (and other mined precious metals).
  - andrepd 9y ago
    The gold used in industry amounts to only 5% of gold mined. The vast majority of gold is not mined for "practical" use.
- semperdark 9y ago
  > less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption Actually, it's 0.08% and rising. The energy for 1 transaction could power almost 6 U.S. homes for a full day. https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    #Bitcoin enables Chinese entrepreneurs to export coal by burning it and using the energy to mine. — Emin Gün Sirer (@el33th4xor) July 20, 2015 https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ Gold mining doesn't provide a useful service in return, huh? As will_brown pointed out, Bitcoin isn't a necessary ingredient in smartphones, electronics, jewelry, medicine, dentistry, aerospace, glassmaking, like gold is. http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml Forget about US homes: How many homes in underdeveloped countries could one Bitcoin transaction power?
    - andrepd 9y ago
      Only about 5% of gold is used in industry. The rest is stored as bullion or used in jewellery.
      - DonHopkins 9y ago
        You sound very confident with using strong words like "absolutely irrelevant" and "completely fallacious" and "actual mindless busywork" and definitive quantities like "less than 0.01%", when it turns out that your numbers are off by almost an order of magnitude base 10 or three orders of magnitude base 2. So they're only burning eight times more coal than you claim (and rising). You're saying that because worldwide production of gold is so small and insignificant and practically useless compared to Bitcoin, and since only 5% is used for anything but bullion or jewelry, it doesn't matter and it's absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand that the smartphone and computer that you're using contains and depends on gold? If not for gold, then how would you be communicating your strong confident words and impressive sounding but inaccurate numbers with us? Do you use bitcoin in your smartphone instead of gold? Where did you get your "less than 0.01%" number and your gold-free smartphone? Is it made of clay?