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I don't like apps/hacks when it comes to mindfulness and meditation. Humans have been successfully meditating for thousands of years without them. Gamification

by Lon7 9y ago

I don't like apps/hacks when it comes to mindfulness and meditation. Humans have been successfully meditating for thousands of years without them. Gamification of mindfulness totally misses the point. The Mind Illuminated: A Complete Meditation Guide Integrating Buddhist Wisdom and Brain Science by John Yates (Ph.D.). This is the best book I've read on meditation. It takes you through why it works, how to do it, how to keep improving at it, and all the common pitfalls you'll encounter.

burke 9y ago
> I don't like apps/hacks when it comes to mindfulness and meditation. Humans have been successfully meditating for thousands of years without them. Gamification of mindfulness totally misses the point. I take a bit of issue with this idea in general that because something has worked for thousands of years, we shouldn't try to apply modern ideas to it. In this case, I think for the actual practice of mindfulness, it's mostly true that helpful technology aids are ironically unhelpful, but building a habit can be hard. Apps like Headspace and so on help a lot of people build the habit. Seconding the book recommendation -- it's by far the best book I've read on the topic too.
- Lon7 9y ago
  I have mixed feelings overall with the technological aides available for meditation now. I think they are causing more people than ever to take up the practice which is great. I bought one of those $300 headbands that "monitored your brain wave" while meditating and had all the apps. A chapter or two into the book I realized how ridiculous it all was. They might have helped establish a habit, but I was never going to progress very far while using them.
  - mrdomino_ 9y ago
    I'm guessing based on the price point that I helped build the SDK for the headband you bought. :)
    - Lon7 9y ago
      The headband was actually very cool by the way, and I do believe it worked as advertised. I'm just not convinced it's a great method method to learn meditation.
- mping 9y ago
  On this particular topic, I am of the opinion that the degree of success of the "old ways" of meditating is far, far superior than any app user of the present.
- eeZah7Ux 9y ago
  > idea in general that because something has worked for thousands of years, we shouldn't try to apply modern ideas to it That's not the point Lom7 made. Some "modern ideas" like neurology seem to go very well with meditation. Some.
- nxsynonym 9y ago
  I agree that mindfulness apps can help people get into the habit or develop an interest. What I personally take issue with is the idea that mindfulness and enlightenment can be boiled down to 10 min intervals without even having to remove your earbuds. I'm glad more and more people are getting into mediation and seeing the benefits, I just hope that developing mindfulness as a skill doesn't get lost in the app-of-month trends.
ivm 9y ago
"Mindfulness in Plain English" is similar: http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english.php http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_eng...
sn9 9y ago
You might be interested in reading this 2015 piece in The New Yorker about Headspace's founder (if you haven't read it already): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/06/the-higher-life https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/06/the-higher-lif...
veli_joza 9y ago
I agree that current batch of apps isn't well suited for task. They can set you on the path and create habit, but it's not a long-term solution. Part of the problem is lack of ambition; most people are after relaxing and de-stressing effects of meditation and for this apps are good enough. They guide you into state that John Yates calls subtle dullness. I think guided mediation cannot take you much further because it poses a distraction.
mr_overalls 9y ago
Seconding the recommendation for The Mind Illuminated. It's the distillation an enormous amount of Buddhist meditation knowledge from several lineages into a modernized, relatively scientific format. Yates also makes the admirable choice of retaining traditional terminology and outlook in cases where modern science wouldn't have anything useful to add (he resists scientizing, in other words.)

by Lon7 9y ago

burke 9y ago

> I don't like apps/hacks when it comes to mindfulness and meditation. Humans have been successfully meditating for thousands of years without them. Gamification of mindfulness totally misses the point. I take a bit of issue with this idea in general that because something has worked for thousands of years, we shouldn't try to apply modern ideas to it. In this case, I think for the actual practice of mindfulness, it's mostly true that helpful technology aids are ironically unhelpful, but building a habit can be hard. Apps like Headspace and so on help a lot of people build the habit. Seconding the book recommendation -- it's by far the best book I've read on the topic too.

Lon7 9y ago
I have mixed feelings overall with the technological aides available for meditation now. I think they are causing more people than ever to take up the practice which is great. I bought one of those $300 headbands that "monitored your brain wave" while meditating and had all the apps. A chapter or two into the book I realized how ridiculous it all was. They might have helped establish a habit, but I was never going to progress very far while using them.
- mrdomino_ 9y ago
  I'm guessing based on the price point that I helped build the SDK for the headband you bought. :)
  - Lon7 9y ago
    The headband was actually very cool by the way, and I do believe it worked as advertised. I'm just not convinced it's a great method method to learn meditation.
mping 9y ago
On this particular topic, I am of the opinion that the degree of success of the "old ways" of meditating is far, far superior than any app user of the present.
eeZah7Ux 9y ago
> idea in general that because something has worked for thousands of years, we shouldn't try to apply modern ideas to it That's not the point Lom7 made. Some "modern ideas" like neurology seem to go very well with meditation. Some.
nxsynonym 9y ago
I agree that mindfulness apps can help people get into the habit or develop an interest. What I personally take issue with is the idea that mindfulness and enlightenment can be boiled down to 10 min intervals without even having to remove your earbuds. I'm glad more and more people are getting into mediation and seeing the benefits, I just hope that developing mindfulness as a skill doesn't get lost in the app-of-month trends.

ivm 9y ago

"Mindfulness in Plain English" is similar: http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english.php http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_eng...

sn9 9y ago

You might be interested in reading this 2015 piece in The New Yorker about Headspace's founder (if you haven't read it already): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/06/the-higher-life https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/06/the-higher-lif...

veli_joza 9y ago

I agree that current batch of apps isn't well suited for task. They can set you on the path and create habit, but it's not a long-term solution. Part of the problem is lack of ambition; most people are after relaxing and de-stressing effects of meditation and for this apps are good enough. They guide you into state that John Yates calls subtle dullness. I think guided mediation cannot take you much further because it poses a distraction.

mr_overalls 9y ago

Seconding the recommendation for The Mind Illuminated. It's the distillation an enormous amount of Buddhist meditation knowledge from several lineages into a modernized, relatively scientific format. Yates also makes the admirable choice of retaining traditional terminology and outlook in cases where modern science wouldn't have anything useful to add (he resists scientizing, in other words.)