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Yeah except that would create massive amounts of electronics litter..

by sbarre 9y ago

DonHopkins 9y ago
And Bitcoin doesn't?
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Who said anything about Bitcoin?
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    "Massive amounts of electronic litter" and "amazing how technology has advanced" into a mad rush to waste resources and energy reminded me of this fire, and all the obsolete PC's and GPU's and ASIC's and coal power plants littering the landscape due to Bitcoin mining: https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-mining-facility/ https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-... https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/ https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-larges... Bitcoin mining consumes enormous amounts of electricity, which is why miners seek out locations that offer cheap energy. The Ordos mine was set up in 2014, making it China’s oldest large-scale bitcoin mining facility. Bitmain acquired it in 2015. It’s powered by electricity mostly from coal-fired power plants. Its daily electricity bill amounts to $39,000. Bitmain also operates other mines in China’s remote areas, like the mountainous Yunnan province in the south and the autonomous region of Xinjiang in the west. http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-plants/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-p... Coal is a killer in China. Coal burning and the secondary effects of sulfate and nitrate contribute to almost half of the dangerous air pollutants in China's polluted cities, compared to 20% from car emissions.
    - andrepd 9y ago
      That (i) is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and (ii) a completely fallacious argument, since Bitcoin mining amounts to less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption, providing a useful service in return (compare with gold mining, which is actual mindless busywork and consumes way more energy than Bitcoin does.
      - will_brown 9y ago
        As you type away your response on a smartphone or computer that contains gold (and other mined precious metals).
        andrepd 9y ago
        The gold used in industry amounts to only 5% of gold mined. The vast majority of gold is not mined for "practical" use.
      - semperdark 9y ago
        > less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption Actually, it's 0.08% and rising. The energy for 1 transaction could power almost 6 U.S. homes for a full day. https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
        DonHopkins 9y ago
        #Bitcoin enables Chinese entrepreneurs to export coal by burning it and using the energy to mine. — Emin Gün Sirer (@el33th4xor) July 20, 2015 https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ Gold mining doesn't provide a useful service in return, huh? As will_brown pointed out, Bitcoin isn't a necessary ingredient in smartphones, electronics, jewelry, medicine, dentistry, aerospace, glassmaking, like gold is. http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml Forget about US homes: How many homes in underdeveloped countries could one Bitcoin transaction power?
        9y ago
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
shalmanese 9y ago
You can already buy single use phone chargers at convenience stores which, while ecologically horrifying, also speaks to how the economics of mass manufacturing work. Then again, are single use phone chargers any more ecologically horrifying than non-rechargeable AA batteries or have they simply been around for much longer and have become mundane.
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  I recently saw those, I was shocked by both the price and the fact they were single use, surely a charging port and the extra circuitry would barely touch the BoM? I've got a battery bank integrated into my wallet anyway, so I won't be caught out.
  - grkvlt 9y ago
    Actually, I took apart a similar device, a single-use e-cigarette battery, and it turns out to be identical to the rechargeable version, except on the tiny PCB inside the chip for handling the charging from USB was absent. The battery was the same Li-ion rechargeable, supplied charged up for ~1 days usage. The economics of these cheap electronics are insane...
ISL 9y ago
And a new recycling waste stream.
- sbarre 9y ago
  Fair enough, as long as that would actually happen. I live in the downtown of a major city and on a weekend morning the amount of flyer/advertising garbage that is strewn across the sidewalks and streets as a result of the previous night's flyering is always depressing. Even now with that all being paper, I'm sure most of it goes to the trash and not to recycling because of how ripped up and soiled it gets.

Yeah except that would create massive amounts of electronics litter..

by sbarre 9y ago

Yeah except that would create massive amounts of electronics litter..

DonHopkins 9y ago

And Bitcoin doesn't?

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
Who said anything about Bitcoin?
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  "Massive amounts of electronic litter" and "amazing how technology has advanced" into a mad rush to waste resources and energy reminded me of this fire, and all the obsolete PC's and GPU's and ASIC's and coal power plants littering the landscape due to Bitcoin mining: https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-mining-facility/ https://www.coindesk.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-... https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/ https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-larges... Bitcoin mining consumes enormous amounts of electricity, which is why miners seek out locations that offer cheap energy. The Ordos mine was set up in 2014, making it China’s oldest large-scale bitcoin mining facility. Bitmain acquired it in 2015. It’s powered by electricity mostly from coal-fired power plants. Its daily electricity bill amounts to $39,000. Bitmain also operates other mines in China’s remote areas, like the mountainous Yunnan province in the south and the autonomous region of Xinjiang in the west. http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-plants/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/28/china-build-unnecessary-coal-p... Coal is a killer in China. Coal burning and the secondary effects of sulfate and nitrate contribute to almost half of the dangerous air pollutants in China's polluted cities, compared to 20% from car emissions.
  - andrepd 9y ago
    That (i) is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and (ii) a completely fallacious argument, since Bitcoin mining amounts to less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption, providing a useful service in return (compare with gold mining, which is actual mindless busywork and consumes way more energy than Bitcoin does.
    - will_brown 9y ago
      As you type away your response on a smartphone or computer that contains gold (and other mined precious metals).
      - andrepd 9y ago
        The gold used in industry amounts to only 5% of gold mined. The vast majority of gold is not mined for "practical" use.
    - semperdark 9y ago
      > less than 0.01% of the world's energy consumption Actually, it's 0.08% and rising. The energy for 1 transaction could power almost 6 U.S. homes for a full day. https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
      - DonHopkins 9y ago
        #Bitcoin enables Chinese entrepreneurs to export coal by burning it and using the energy to mine. — Emin Gün Sirer (@el33th4xor) July 20, 2015 https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ Gold mining doesn't provide a useful service in return, huh? As will_brown pointed out, Bitcoin isn't a necessary ingredient in smartphones, electronics, jewelry, medicine, dentistry, aerospace, glassmaking, like gold is. http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml Forget about US homes: How many homes in underdeveloped countries could one Bitcoin transaction power?
        9y ago
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

shalmanese 9y ago

You can already buy single use phone chargers at convenience stores which, while ecologically horrifying, also speaks to how the economics of mass manufacturing work. Then again, are single use phone chargers any more ecologically horrifying than non-rechargeable AA batteries or have they simply been around for much longer and have become mundane.

amiga-workbench 9y ago
I recently saw those, I was shocked by both the price and the fact they were single use, surely a charging port and the extra circuitry would barely touch the BoM? I've got a battery bank integrated into my wallet anyway, so I won't be caught out.
- grkvlt 9y ago
  Actually, I took apart a similar device, a single-use e-cigarette battery, and it turns out to be identical to the rechargeable version, except on the tiny PCB inside the chip for handling the charging from USB was absent. The battery was the same Li-ion rechargeable, supplied charged up for ~1 days usage. The economics of these cheap electronics are insane...

ISL 9y ago

And a new recycling waste stream.

sbarre 9y ago
Fair enough, as long as that would actually happen. I live in the downtown of a major city and on a weekend morning the amount of flyer/advertising garbage that is strewn across the sidewalks and streets as a result of the previous night's flyering is always depressing. Even now with that all being paper, I'm sure most of it goes to the trash and not to recycling because of how ripped up and soiled it gets.