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One test I have always applied when looking at joining a company is "do the majority of managers, including C level execs have an employee who makes more than t

One test I have always applied when looking at joining a company is "do the majority of managers, including C level execs have an employee who makes more than them." In the well run tech companies I've worked at, the programmers tended to make more money than their managers, which I find to be a good sign. Ditto for almost all hedge funds I've seen, though to a much larger extreme, those who produce the value get the largest paycheck regardless of their pecking order. though to be fair the huge hedge funds buck this trend by making soooo much money and having a single person own the management company that the fund pays the management and performance fees into. It doesn't help with measuring the ratio of the lowest paycheck to the highest, but it does help ensure that people get paid based on what they produce rather than their title. But I find its a good question to ask when interviewing. Find the manager and ask how many of his/her reports make more than them. If you get squirming or push back about a top down approach with salaries that follow the same logic, then you've got a decent data point that you won't be all that valued at the company.

anonymousDan 9y ago
How exactly do you go about finding that out? Just during interviews?
KGIII 9y ago
Just an extension to your post... I sold and retired but I used to get shocked looks when I revealed that some of my employees earned a higher wage than I did. Basically, I paid myself a reasonable salary and paid other people to do things that I could not. On the whole, I think this fostered a good work environment. There was a physically demonstrable level of respect. Salaries weren't ever really hidden, so it was almost certainly a motivator/morale boost when crunch times came. I paid myself enough and, for the most part, just kept pushing funds back into growth and a nest egg. I also kept the business as a separate entity. To give an example, this was the early 1990s and quality programmers weren't easy to find. New hires started in the six figure range, unadjusted dollars. As an aside, it's notable that folks tell me that wages haven't really improved and, in sme cases, have declined. Anyhow, the gist of this post is that showing respect earns you respect. Granted, the company never expanded beyond 250 people and I haven't actually ever taken a business class. So, I guess this is largely anecdotal.
albertgoeswoof 9y ago
What's the incentive to go into management if you get paid less? By management I don't mean product/project management, I mean general & strategic leadership of a large organisation.
- deleted 9y ago
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- tim333 9y ago
  Maybe the person who is paid more has higher skills. The manager could be average and person the manage a star performer.
- arebop 9y ago
  If you enjoy it, that's a good incentive. Organizations that overpay managers in order to entice ICs to take up less productive management work are shooting themselves in the foot.
- gaius 9y ago
  What's the incentive to go into management if you get paid less? One organisation I worked for had a very elaborate grade system, I was a Grade 20, the highest non-management grade. At that level you had a choice: try to get promoted to Grade 21 at which you would officially be management, but you would lose your overtime pay, and it wasn't until Grade 25 at least that it would be financially worthwhile. Or you could divert your efforts into avoiding getting promoted... Guess what the majority of engineers did? The guy I reported to there however embraced the promotion. He loved "being a manager". He loved the attache case, he loved going over the minutes of meetings, he loved pre-meetings to plan the next meeting, he loved travelling to attend more meetings... It takes all sorts I guess. He was an unremarkable engineer before, and he wasn't any good at actually managing either tho'!

anonymousDan 9y ago

How exactly do you go about finding that out? Just during interviews?

KGIII 9y ago

Just an extension to your post... I sold and retired but I used to get shocked looks when I revealed that some of my employees earned a higher wage than I did. Basically, I paid myself a reasonable salary and paid other people to do things that I could not. On the whole, I think this fostered a good work environment. There was a physically demonstrable level of respect. Salaries weren't ever really hidden, so it was almost certainly a motivator/morale boost when crunch times came. I paid myself enough and, for the most part, just kept pushing funds back into growth and a nest egg. I also kept the business as a separate entity. To give an example, this was the early 1990s and quality programmers weren't easy to find. New hires started in the six figure range, unadjusted dollars. As an aside, it's notable that folks tell me that wages haven't really improved and, in sme cases, have declined. Anyhow, the gist of this post is that showing respect earns you respect. Granted, the company never expanded beyond 250 people and I haven't actually ever taken a business class. So, I guess this is largely anecdotal.

albertgoeswoof 9y ago

What's the incentive to go into management if you get paid less? By management I don't mean product/project management, I mean general & strategic leadership of a large organisation.

deleted 9y ago
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tim333 9y ago
Maybe the person who is paid more has higher skills. The manager could be average and person the manage a star performer.
arebop 9y ago
If you enjoy it, that's a good incentive. Organizations that overpay managers in order to entice ICs to take up less productive management work are shooting themselves in the foot.
gaius 9y ago
What's the incentive to go into management if you get paid less? One organisation I worked for had a very elaborate grade system, I was a Grade 20, the highest non-management grade. At that level you had a choice: try to get promoted to Grade 21 at which you would officially be management, but you would lose your overtime pay, and it wasn't until Grade 25 at least that it would be financially worthwhile. Or you could divert your efforts into avoiding getting promoted... Guess what the majority of engineers did? The guy I reported to there however embraced the promotion. He loved "being a manager". He loved the attache case, he loved going over the minutes of meetings, he loved pre-meetings to plan the next meeting, he loved travelling to attend more meetings... It takes all sorts I guess. He was an unremarkable engineer before, and he wasn't any good at actually managing either tho'!