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I'm not the parent but would like to know. How much does it cost? And how does "I skipped our free IRB and paid this third-party IRB because they're laxer" rea

by euyyn 9y ago

I'm not the parent but would like to know. How much does it cost? And how does "I skipped our free IRB and paid this third-party IRB because they're laxer" really look to the department?

icelancer 9y ago
A few hundred dollars, generally. Depending on provider. >>And how does "I skipped our free IRB and paid this third-party IRB because they're laxer" really look to the department? In my experience the third-party IRB orgs are not more lax, they are just faster at turning things around. Alexander's article bemoans primarily the time it took to get all these decisions made, which private IRBs would be on top of. I got my rejections of consent forms within 24 hours and get my docs pre-qualified over the phone after submission and discussion with reps. Try that at your local university's IRB. Alexander also has complaints about the questions and methods, but they're mostly unfounded. The study title aspect is important, the signing in pencil is not really relevant (I get his complaint but most industries don't allow contracts signed in pencil), and the transfer of the study to a new investigator unannounced is a huge breach of procedure and he's lucky that all the IRB asked was for a submission of a new investigator. Usually it is much more arduous. IRB simply controls the ethics and the informed consent documents and has the right to audit materials and process at any time to ensure you stay up on these things. Beyond that, it doesn't do much. When you submit your paper to a peer-reviewed journal (some who don't even need IRB approval, just an ethics statement, mind you), they don't call your IRB provider and reference check you. Ohio State researchers published a fraudulent article about CrossFit years ago in the JSCR, which is considered a very prestigious exercise science journal. http://retractionwatch.com/2017/06/02/journal-retracts-ohio-state-crossfit-study-center-lawsuits/ http://retractionwatch.com/2017/06/02/journal-retracts-ohio-... Devor stated they had IRB approval. In actuality, they did not. CrossFit sued NSCA (parent org of JSCR) and won lawyer's fees, and Ohio State settled with CrossFit for six figures for damages due to false publications. IRB is a mere formality in today's landscape. You just need to get it out of the way. It's not like journals are cross-checking your IRB applications, they just want to see the approval that you put in there. And hell, if you're like Ohio State researchers (and probably many more), you can just lie about it.
mattkrause 9y ago
Yeah, I'm surprised the funders (or someone in a business office, at least), don't baulk at paying for this. @icelander, have you ever successfully charged these third-party IRB fees to a grant?
- icelancer 9y ago
  Yes. A few weeks ago.

by euyyn 9y ago

I'm not the parent but would like to know. How much does it cost? And how does "I skipped our free IRB and paid this third-party IRB because they're laxer" really look to the department?

icelancer 9y ago

A few hundred dollars, generally. Depending on provider. >>And how does "I skipped our free IRB and paid this third-party IRB because they're laxer" really look to the department? In my experience the third-party IRB orgs are not more lax, they are just faster at turning things around. Alexander's article bemoans primarily the time it took to get all these decisions made, which private IRBs would be on top of. I got my rejections of consent forms within 24 hours and get my docs pre-qualified over the phone after submission and discussion with reps. Try that at your local university's IRB. Alexander also has complaints about the questions and methods, but they're mostly unfounded. The study title aspect is important, the signing in pencil is not really relevant (I get his complaint but most industries don't allow contracts signed in pencil), and the transfer of the study to a new investigator unannounced is a huge breach of procedure and he's lucky that all the IRB asked was for a submission of a new investigator. Usually it is much more arduous. IRB simply controls the ethics and the informed consent documents and has the right to audit materials and process at any time to ensure you stay up on these things. Beyond that, it doesn't do much. When you submit your paper to a peer-reviewed journal (some who don't even need IRB approval, just an ethics statement, mind you), they don't call your IRB provider and reference check you. Ohio State researchers published a fraudulent article about CrossFit years ago in the JSCR, which is considered a very prestigious exercise science journal. http://retractionwatch.com/2017/06/02/journal-retracts-ohio-state-crossfit-study-center-lawsuits/ http://retractionwatch.com/2017/06/02/journal-retracts-ohio-... Devor stated they had IRB approval. In actuality, they did not. CrossFit sued NSCA (parent org of JSCR) and won lawyer's fees, and Ohio State settled with CrossFit for six figures for damages due to false publications. IRB is a mere formality in today's landscape. You just need to get it out of the way. It's not like journals are cross-checking your IRB applications, they just want to see the approval that you put in there. And hell, if you're like Ohio State researchers (and probably many more), you can just lie about it.

mattkrause 9y ago

Yeah, I'm surprised the funders (or someone in a business office, at least), don't baulk at paying for this. @icelander, have you ever successfully charged these third-party IRB fees to a grant?

icelancer 9y ago
Yes. A few weeks ago.