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Essentially every single aspect of our cultures understanding about how to accomplish things and do work is a direct outgrowth of assembly-line manufacturing.

Essentially every single aspect of our cultures understanding about how to accomplish things and do work is a direct outgrowth of assembly-line manufacturing. Mental work is fundamentally different. But we continue to treat mental work as if its the same thing as mindless physical rote repetition. Humans aren't capable of extended periods of mental exertion. 40 hours of work a week was fine when moving sheet metal into a press. For mental work, it's counter-productive and borders on the cruel. It's certainly harmful to every effort that pursues it. But habits die hard, and the management class is more addicted to the manufacturing-driven mindset than junkies are to heroin, so it'll take awhile to change.

munin 9y ago
> Humans aren't capable of extended periods of mental exertion The humans on my thesis committee are definitely capable of extended periods of mental exertion. I don't know if it's something you're only born with or if it's something you can train but I bet I'll find out in a few years.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  How would you know? It looks difficult, maybe even impossible to measure academic productivity.
  - munin 9y ago
    Well, we could use a crude metric which is, how much of the day do you spend doing intellectual work? Right now, my advisor spends about ten or twelve hours. And it is pretty deep intellectual work, most of it is paper reading or discussion, via e-mail or in person meetings. Between watching when/how they reply to e-mail, make check-ins, their calendar, and talking to other collaborators and other students, they genuinely seem to fill 12 hours a day with work, six days a week, and have for the last fifteen years. We can quickly get into some no-true-Scotsman territory here by asking "well if they're so smart how many Nobel/Field/Turing awards do they have" or something, but that's not the original question. The original question was, how much can you work at a high level a day? I have a measurement for both the ceiling and the floor and the ceiling seems high.
    - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
      "how much of the day do you spend doing intellectual work?" But that only measures time, not productivity which is at the root of this problem. You think your advisor is doing ten or twelve hours of deep work, but how do you know they couldn't achieve the same in four or five? By the way, meetings and emails aren't deep work, even in an academic setting.
tedsanders 9y ago
I'm open-minded, but find this hard to believe. Look at investment bankers or management consultants or doctors. These professions require very long hours, and the work is clearly mental, not physical. I myself work as a consultant, and my work is 100% mental, but I don't feel that working 40 hours is cruel. Even working 70 hours is a pain, but I wouldn't call it cruel.

munin 9y ago

> Humans aren't capable of extended periods of mental exertion The humans on my thesis committee are definitely capable of extended periods of mental exertion. I don't know if it's something you're only born with or if it's something you can train but I bet I'll find out in a few years.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
How would you know? It looks difficult, maybe even impossible to measure academic productivity.
- munin 9y ago
  Well, we could use a crude metric which is, how much of the day do you spend doing intellectual work? Right now, my advisor spends about ten or twelve hours. And it is pretty deep intellectual work, most of it is paper reading or discussion, via e-mail or in person meetings. Between watching when/how they reply to e-mail, make check-ins, their calendar, and talking to other collaborators and other students, they genuinely seem to fill 12 hours a day with work, six days a week, and have for the last fifteen years. We can quickly get into some no-true-Scotsman territory here by asking "well if they're so smart how many Nobel/Field/Turing awards do they have" or something, but that's not the original question. The original question was, how much can you work at a high level a day? I have a measurement for both the ceiling and the floor and the ceiling seems high.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    "how much of the day do you spend doing intellectual work?" But that only measures time, not productivity which is at the root of this problem. You think your advisor is doing ten or twelve hours of deep work, but how do you know they couldn't achieve the same in four or five? By the way, meetings and emails aren't deep work, even in an academic setting.

tedsanders 9y ago

I'm open-minded, but find this hard to believe. Look at investment bankers or management consultants or doctors. These professions require very long hours, and the work is clearly mental, not physical. I myself work as a consultant, and my work is 100% mental, but I don't feel that working 40 hours is cruel. Even working 70 hours is a pain, but I wouldn't call it cruel.