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You seem to be saying there's a high threshold for extreme opinions to be published in the Guardian, so the fact that someone wrote such an article suggests tha

You seem to be saying there's a high threshold for extreme opinions to be published in the Guardian, so the fact that someone wrote such an article suggests that there is a genuine problem that needs to be taken seriously. Guardian writers do not live inside a "bubble" and therefore, there is inherent merit to what they write. I wonder how often you actually read the Guardian, which is famous for having wildly extreme opinion pieces, especially lately. It's basically the Breitbart of the left, a more or less constant stream of clickbait designed to make people angry and upset. Just a few random headlines I got from clicking around just now: "Who paid for the leave vote? Brexit should be halted until we know" "The car has a chokehold on Britain. It’s time to free ourselves: Our insanely inefficient transport system is in thrall to the metal god. Electric vehicles are not the answer" "Ask Hadley: Why do older people hate millennials so much?" "Men on the left are sexist. Labour needs to do more to fix it." "Feminists don't hate men. But it wouldn't matter if we did." ... and in case you think asking the government to take control of internet companies is new idea from Guardian writers: "The Guardian view on censoring the internet: necessary, but not easy" "Internet regulation: is it time to rein in the tech giants?" "The EU is right to take on Facebook, but mere fines don’t protect us from tech giants" I wouldn't exactly claim the Guardian floats above bubbles and groupthinks.

jasiek 9y ago
The Guardian uses clickbait just like any other site. Those ads aren't going to display themselves.
bem94 9y ago
I read the guardian frequently and long since learned to ignore the clickbait headlines you point out. Remember that columnists don't write their own headlines. The content of an article is usually more nuanced and thought out that the headline might suggest. Emphasis on the usually. I don't think comparing the Guardian to britebart is fair at all, but that's another debate. I'm not saying newspaper columnists don't live in a bubble. Just a different one from the silicon valley / HN bubble. If they get an impression of the tech world that causes them to think nationalisation is the way forward, the tech world needs to respond to that. Undermining the publication or author (as opposed to considering their argument, and separating it into causes - surveillance capitalism - and proposed effects - nationalisation) does not change the fact people are rightly suspicious of Facebook/Google/Amazon etc and they will react accordingly.
KineticLensman 9y ago
> "Ask Hadley: Why do older people hate millennials so much?" Disclosure: Guardian reader here. I remember reading the Hadley Freemen [1] article cited here, finding it amusing at the time, so googled it [2] to remind myself what it said. On re-reading, I still find it quite amusing. It includes observations such as “Older people have always found youngsters irritating, self-entitled and arrogant, because young people are irritating, self-entitled and arrogant. That’s part of the joy of being young, and part of the compensation of getting older is you can snuggle on down in your smug eiderdown of condescension about The Youth Today.” The concluding para says “So, in conclusion, don’t feel attacked, young people: older people were always grumpy with the younger generation. And to all the 55- to 64-year-olds out there? Maybe give all that boob Googling a rest, OK? Take a tip from your kids on this”. To me, the article is a plea for tolerance of the young by the old, pointing out the quirks of both generations. More widely, I’ll agree that The Guardian does have regular columns written by activists such as George Monbiot [3], and its writers may disagree with or explicitly criticise some of The Guardian’s peer rivals, such as the Daily Mail, The Telegraph, etc. But, personally, I can’t accept it as the Breitbart of the Left. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_Freeman [2] https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/aug/21/ask-hadley-older-people-hate-millennials-boobs-fertility-next-generation-irritating-arrogant https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/aug/21/ask-hadley-o... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot
ionised 9y ago
>It's basically the Breitbart of the left That's ridiculous. The Guardian has been a mainstream newspaper for over 100 years. It is not a fringe publication, no matter how much you disagree with everything in it. I'm sure that says more about your political leanings than it does about the Guardian (as if it even had one unified ideology behind it, which it doesn't).
- mercurysmessage 9y ago
  Yea Breitbart is on another level, doesn't even make sense to compare them.
kiliantics 9y ago
> It's basically the Breitbart of the left Please. The Guardian is establishment liberal media. The opinions they publish aren't even that extreme. There are plenty of journals that are far more radical and much further to the left. It's funny how conservative HN looks when posts like this appear.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  The opinions they publish are fantastically extreme and often deeply offensive. The Guardian constantly pumps out honest to god racism, sexism and other deplorable viewpoints. The only reason you don't believe it's comparable to Breitbart is you haven't sat down and done an honest comparison. My post simply lists out Guardian headlines for all to see. It originally had something like +15 points and now it's sitting at zero, apparently it touched a nerve with some people who can't stand the idea that the Guardian and Breitbart might be comparable. Here are some more headlines from their opinion writers, just to disabuse anyone of the notion that the Guardian is somehow not a bastion of radical extremism. They hate white people, they hate democracy, they hate men, they hate voters, they hate tea and Thomas the Tank Engine. They make money out of peddling hatred. "The budget should be less macho - how about it boys" "Why do women lie more than men? Because we're nicer" "The Whiteness Project will make you wince. Because white people can be rather awful" "Sexists are scared of Mad Max because it's a call to dismantle patriarchies" "Are you too white, rich, able-bodied and straight to be a feminist" "Tea is a national disgrace: Britain's favourite beverage is a boring relic of our colonial past." "The tyrannical world of Thomas the Tank Engine. Kids love this little dipstick of an engine ... but what a chilling isle Sodor is." "What if men had periods? It's a question worth posing" "Democracy is a religion that has failed the poor" "The country is screwed, the electorate is evil, but here are nine reasons to be cheerful" "The week in patriarchy: take a moment to step away for survival" "Did you weep watching Wonder Woman? You weren't alone" "Remember when men and women could be friends? Republicans don't" "Why the mediocre male's days may be numbered" etc etc.
  - maym86 9y ago
    Care to go through each headline and explain your issues with each? I don't see any extreme or unreasonable views in the list you've posted.

jasiek 9y ago

The Guardian uses clickbait just like any other site. Those ads aren't going to display themselves.

bem94 9y ago

I read the guardian frequently and long since learned to ignore the clickbait headlines you point out. Remember that columnists don't write their own headlines. The content of an article is usually more nuanced and thought out that the headline might suggest. Emphasis on the usually. I don't think comparing the Guardian to britebart is fair at all, but that's another debate. I'm not saying newspaper columnists don't live in a bubble. Just a different one from the silicon valley / HN bubble. If they get an impression of the tech world that causes them to think nationalisation is the way forward, the tech world needs to respond to that. Undermining the publication or author (as opposed to considering their argument, and separating it into causes - surveillance capitalism - and proposed effects - nationalisation) does not change the fact people are rightly suspicious of Facebook/Google/Amazon etc and they will react accordingly.

KineticLensman 9y ago

> "Ask Hadley: Why do older people hate millennials so much?" Disclosure: Guardian reader here. I remember reading the Hadley Freemen [1] article cited here, finding it amusing at the time, so googled it [2] to remind myself what it said. On re-reading, I still find it quite amusing. It includes observations such as “Older people have always found youngsters irritating, self-entitled and arrogant, because young people are irritating, self-entitled and arrogant. That’s part of the joy of being young, and part of the compensation of getting older is you can snuggle on down in your smug eiderdown of condescension about The Youth Today.” The concluding para says “So, in conclusion, don’t feel attacked, young people: older people were always grumpy with the younger generation. And to all the 55- to 64-year-olds out there? Maybe give all that boob Googling a rest, OK? Take a tip from your kids on this”. To me, the article is a plea for tolerance of the young by the old, pointing out the quirks of both generations. More widely, I’ll agree that The Guardian does have regular columns written by activists such as George Monbiot [3], and its writers may disagree with or explicitly criticise some of The Guardian’s peer rivals, such as the Daily Mail, The Telegraph, etc. But, personally, I can’t accept it as the Breitbart of the Left. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_Freeman [2] https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/aug/21/ask-hadley-older-people-hate-millennials-boobs-fertility-next-generation-irritating-arrogant https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/aug/21/ask-hadley-o... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

ionised 9y ago

>It's basically the Breitbart of the left That's ridiculous. The Guardian has been a mainstream newspaper for over 100 years. It is not a fringe publication, no matter how much you disagree with everything in it. I'm sure that says more about your political leanings than it does about the Guardian (as if it even had one unified ideology behind it, which it doesn't).

mercurysmessage 9y ago
Yea Breitbart is on another level, doesn't even make sense to compare them.

kiliantics 9y ago

> It's basically the Breitbart of the left Please. The Guardian is establishment liberal media. The opinions they publish aren't even that extreme. There are plenty of journals that are far more radical and much further to the left. It's funny how conservative HN looks when posts like this appear.

peoplewindow 9y ago
The opinions they publish are fantastically extreme and often deeply offensive. The Guardian constantly pumps out honest to god racism, sexism and other deplorable viewpoints. The only reason you don't believe it's comparable to Breitbart is you haven't sat down and done an honest comparison. My post simply lists out Guardian headlines for all to see. It originally had something like +15 points and now it's sitting at zero, apparently it touched a nerve with some people who can't stand the idea that the Guardian and Breitbart might be comparable. Here are some more headlines from their opinion writers, just to disabuse anyone of the notion that the Guardian is somehow not a bastion of radical extremism. They hate white people, they hate democracy, they hate men, they hate voters, they hate tea and Thomas the Tank Engine. They make money out of peddling hatred. "The budget should be less macho - how about it boys" "Why do women lie more than men? Because we're nicer" "The Whiteness Project will make you wince. Because white people can be rather awful" "Sexists are scared of Mad Max because it's a call to dismantle patriarchies" "Are you too white, rich, able-bodied and straight to be a feminist" "Tea is a national disgrace: Britain's favourite beverage is a boring relic of our colonial past." "The tyrannical world of Thomas the Tank Engine. Kids love this little dipstick of an engine ... but what a chilling isle Sodor is." "What if men had periods? It's a question worth posing" "Democracy is a religion that has failed the poor" "The country is screwed, the electorate is evil, but here are nine reasons to be cheerful" "The week in patriarchy: take a moment to step away for survival" "Did you weep watching Wonder Woman? You weren't alone" "Remember when men and women could be friends? Republicans don't" "Why the mediocre male's days may be numbered" etc etc.
- maym86 9y ago
  Care to go through each headline and explain your issues with each? I don't see any extreme or unreasonable views in the list you've posted.