5 ms·

What's wrong with bank transfers?

by simplyinfinity 9y ago

TomMarius 9y ago
Very expensive
- true_religion 9y ago
  30 USD per transaction is expensive?
  - gexla 9y ago
    That's 10 days of labor in the country I'm living in. Even decently paid people here might need 3 days of work to make that. And yes, it seems like a lot for something which requires very little action from anyone.
    - true_religion 9y ago
      But as a fee relative to the amounts I'd expect someone to pay a software developer... it shouldn't be too much. Speaking to a potential employer, I would say that if 30 USD is expensive versus the salary you are paying, then you are paying too little. As an example, my employer hires developers in the Philippines and pays on average 5000 USD each per month. The cost of the wire transfer is 0.6% of that. I think we pay more per month on phone service just to talk to them.
      - saiprashanth93 9y ago
        That is quite generous of your company to pay 5000 usd per month to devs in the Philippines. If you don't mind, can you let me know what company you work for? Since there is no contact info in your pofile, If you don't want to put it here, my email is in my profile. Thanks.
        gexla 9y ago
        It's not generous. They aren't running a charity. There is a market rate for work and that rate isn't limited by geographic location. It's your ability to sell which will get you that rate. As a developer, you have all the power to become a black hole of resources, sucking in all the money paid to you, the time of everyone who deals with you and all positive energy. That's why the start-up gurus will tell you that one bad hire can sink a company. On the other end, you have developers who can will into existence the sun, the moon and the stars. Location and nationality don't matter. I think what people get caught up on is they think it's about developer skills. But paradoxically, when you are hiring a developer, it's those development skills which are the last things on the list of importance aside from the fact that they should be present. https://80000hours.org/articles/skills-most-employable/ https://80000hours.org/articles/skills-most-employable/ There was an HN thread on this article the other day. Agree with it or not, but I think all those things above programming is what separates a disaster looking to pick up a check from an A-team operator who doesn't have to worry about getting work.
        saiprashanth93 9y ago
        >There is a market rate for work and that rate isn't limited by geographic location. It's your ability to sell which will get you that rate. But for most programming jobs, developers are interchangeable and a big part of hiring a developer(remote or not) in developing countries is that you can pay a fraction of the salary you would be pay if you were hiring a dev in US/Europe. Hence this in essence is one of the major selling points. What are the specific things would you say one can do to sell themselves at that rate keeping in mind the above mentioned point?
        ddorian43 9y ago
        Keeping in mind the "most programming jobs developers are interchangeable" ? Either be very good at php/css, or be good at, something else. That is more rare. Say, low-level java/c++. And find a job at redislabs/scylladb/elasticsearch/etc.
        gexla 9y ago
      - gexla 9y ago
        I don't disagree. In your scenario, time becomes more of a concern than the money. After a certain point, you just want whatever is easiest for the people involved.
      - justboxing 9y ago
        > But as a fee relative to the amounts I'd expect someone to pay a software developer... it shouldn't be too much. That depends. I should've clarified that the remote workers are Contractors, not Employees, and the hiring period and costs vary. For example, I'd hired a contractor in India to write a small Python script -- took him 20 minutes - (1 time gig) for 50 USD. If I were to do a bank transfer for a 30$ fee, that's over 50% of the cost of the actual work / services rendered. But I get your point. For remote employees on a USD salary, it's usually 2000 USD or more per month, and in that case, Bank Transfer may be feasible as it's convenient for both parties.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    30 USD per transaction indeed seems expensive to me (but hey banks have to make money somehow and foreign bank transfers are one source of nice margins for them) but in a grand scheme of things this should be a negligible business expense to the company. I assume it would be a very small fraction of developer salaries.
  - TomMarius 9y ago
    If you're getting paid $500 for a small gig, then yes, it's a significant portion. It's a significant portion of $1000, IMO.

What's wrong with bank transfers?

TomMarius 9y ago

Very expensive

true_religion 9y ago
30 USD per transaction is expensive?
- gexla 9y ago
  That's 10 days of labor in the country I'm living in. Even decently paid people here might need 3 days of work to make that. And yes, it seems like a lot for something which requires very little action from anyone.
  - true_religion 9y ago
    But as a fee relative to the amounts I'd expect someone to pay a software developer... it shouldn't be too much. Speaking to a potential employer, I would say that if 30 USD is expensive versus the salary you are paying, then you are paying too little. As an example, my employer hires developers in the Philippines and pays on average 5000 USD each per month. The cost of the wire transfer is 0.6% of that. I think we pay more per month on phone service just to talk to them.
    - saiprashanth93 9y ago
      That is quite generous of your company to pay 5000 usd per month to devs in the Philippines. If you don't mind, can you let me know what company you work for? Since there is no contact info in your pofile, If you don't want to put it here, my email is in my profile. Thanks.
      - gexla 9y ago
        It's not generous. They aren't running a charity. There is a market rate for work and that rate isn't limited by geographic location. It's your ability to sell which will get you that rate. As a developer, you have all the power to become a black hole of resources, sucking in all the money paid to you, the time of everyone who deals with you and all positive energy. That's why the start-up gurus will tell you that one bad hire can sink a company. On the other end, you have developers who can will into existence the sun, the moon and the stars. Location and nationality don't matter. I think what people get caught up on is they think it's about developer skills. But paradoxically, when you are hiring a developer, it's those development skills which are the last things on the list of importance aside from the fact that they should be present. https://80000hours.org/articles/skills-most-employable/ https://80000hours.org/articles/skills-most-employable/ There was an HN thread on this article the other day. Agree with it or not, but I think all those things above programming is what separates a disaster looking to pick up a check from an A-team operator who doesn't have to worry about getting work.
        saiprashanth93 9y ago
        >There is a market rate for work and that rate isn't limited by geographic location. It's your ability to sell which will get you that rate. But for most programming jobs, developers are interchangeable and a big part of hiring a developer(remote or not) in developing countries is that you can pay a fraction of the salary you would be pay if you were hiring a dev in US/Europe. Hence this in essence is one of the major selling points. What are the specific things would you say one can do to sell themselves at that rate keeping in mind the above mentioned point?
        ddorian43 9y ago
        Keeping in mind the "most programming jobs developers are interchangeable" ? Either be very good at php/css, or be good at, something else. That is more rare. Say, low-level java/c++. And find a job at redislabs/scylladb/elasticsearch/etc.
        gexla 9y ago
    - gexla 9y ago
      I don't disagree. In your scenario, time becomes more of a concern than the money. After a certain point, you just want whatever is easiest for the people involved.
    - justboxing 9y ago
      > But as a fee relative to the amounts I'd expect someone to pay a software developer... it shouldn't be too much. That depends. I should've clarified that the remote workers are Contractors, not Employees, and the hiring period and costs vary. For example, I'd hired a contractor in India to write a small Python script -- took him 20 minutes - (1 time gig) for 50 USD. If I were to do a bank transfer for a 30$ fee, that's over 50% of the cost of the actual work / services rendered. But I get your point. For remote employees on a USD salary, it's usually 2000 USD or more per month, and in that case, Bank Transfer may be feasible as it's convenient for both parties.
- richardknop 9y ago
  30 USD per transaction indeed seems expensive to me (but hey banks have to make money somehow and foreign bank transfers are one source of nice margins for them) but in a grand scheme of things this should be a negligible business expense to the company. I assume it would be a very small fraction of developer salaries.
- TomMarius 9y ago
  If you're getting paid $500 for a small gig, then yes, it's a significant portion. It's a significant portion of $1000, IMO.