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Im hesitant to even type this, but I've had similar thoughts. If a lot of gender is just a construct and our gender roles are rooted in a time when women were

Im hesitant to even type this, but I've had similar thoughts. If a lot of gender is just a construct and our gender roles are rooted in a time when women were taught to be subservient to men, then it's highly possible that a lot of traits that are deemed "feminine" are just traits that were taught to women to make them subservient/less competitive/etc. So maybe being timid, shy, soft-spoken, and like traits should not be considered "feminine" in a biological sense. They should be considered traits that make you less likely to get what you want and much more likely to be taken advantage of. And those traits were included in the feminine construct of yesterday to make women easier to control. So maybe it's ok to discriminate against some of those traits when hiring because you aren't discriminating against biological traits but rather learned traits that may or may not make you more productive in certain environments.

Mz 9y ago
I think your first three paragraphs are fine, but your conclusion sounds very much like a casual justification for sexism. That doesn't sit well with me. (Among other things) I am not soft spoken. That fact actually gets me a lot of social friction for failing to be what people expect from a woman. I am trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I hope to start blogging soon in a "thinking out loud" manner. My hope is to sort a few things out for myself and maybe help other people think through the problem space a tad. I am not ready to write about it. I have started several posts and the attempt is just not going well, plus I am hip deep in other goals right this minute. My hope is to "bring solutions, not complaints." And justifications for the current status quo are just inherently problematic and a great way to provoke ugly reactions. But thank you for replying. I realize it involves sticking your neck out.
projektir 9y ago
> So maybe being timid, shy, soft-spoken, and like traits should not be considered "feminine" in a biological sense. They should be considered traits that make you less likely to get what you want and much more likely to be taken advantage of. And those traits were included in the feminine construct of yesterday to make women easier to control. I quite like this discussion, but I'm not a fan of this point. "likely to get what you want" is a very combative way to look at the world. On the other hand, less forceful people work together well with others and cause less unnecessary conflict. I think humanity is more about cooperation and empathy than about domination and taking advantage of each other, at least in terms of what makes us stand out. It generally does seem that the "masculine" traits are considered "better", but I don't think that's a proven fact. Consider also that women acting more combative get a lot of push back.

Mz 9y ago

I think your first three paragraphs are fine, but your conclusion sounds very much like a casual justification for sexism. That doesn't sit well with me. (Among other things) I am not soft spoken. That fact actually gets me a lot of social friction for failing to be what people expect from a woman. I am trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I hope to start blogging soon in a "thinking out loud" manner. My hope is to sort a few things out for myself and maybe help other people think through the problem space a tad. I am not ready to write about it. I have started several posts and the attempt is just not going well, plus I am hip deep in other goals right this minute. My hope is to "bring solutions, not complaints." And justifications for the current status quo are just inherently problematic and a great way to provoke ugly reactions. But thank you for replying. I realize it involves sticking your neck out.

projektir 9y ago

> So maybe being timid, shy, soft-spoken, and like traits should not be considered "feminine" in a biological sense. They should be considered traits that make you less likely to get what you want and much more likely to be taken advantage of. And those traits were included in the feminine construct of yesterday to make women easier to control. I quite like this discussion, but I'm not a fan of this point. "likely to get what you want" is a very combative way to look at the world. On the other hand, less forceful people work together well with others and cause less unnecessary conflict. I think humanity is more about cooperation and empathy than about domination and taking advantage of each other, at least in terms of what makes us stand out. It generally does seem that the "masculine" traits are considered "better", but I don't think that's a proven fact. Consider also that women acting more combative get a lot of push back.