4 ms·

So the cultivation and sale should be totally unregulated? (By which I mean, status quo - it's on a DEA "schedule" and outlawed, so growth, sale, consumption al

So the cultivation and sale should be totally unregulated? (By which I mean, status quo - it's on a DEA "schedule" and outlawed, so growth, sale, consumption all occur outside the bounds of regulation.)

Alex3917 9y ago
I don't think psilocybin should be scheduled, and I think folks should be able to buy pure psilocybin, psilocin, 4-ACO-DMT, etc. online under the driver's license model. But I don't really see any reason for mushrooms themselves to be legal to sell, given that it's just an unknown dose of psilocybin that comes in a form that's mainly of interest for historic and spiritual reasons. It seems to me that selling mushrooms themselves should still be at least a misdemeanor and come with a substantial fine.
- gothroach 9y ago
  What do you mean by the driver's license model? Similar to buying pseudoephedrine?
  - Alex3917 9y ago
    The model of drug regulation that Rick Doblin advocates for, where you would need to pass a test to be able to use a certain class of substances. http://realitysandwich.com/165390/state_psychedelic_research_interview_rick_doblin/ http://realitysandwich.com/165390/state_psychedelic_research...
    - gothroach 9y ago
      That's really interesting - I hadn't heard of it before, but it makes a lot of sense.
- carbocation 9y ago
  OK, I see what you're getting at, I think. Basically, if people have a mushrooms, protecting them from legal jeopardy. I think the issue with this is that the acquisition of unregulated mushrooms will be no safer. Wouldn't it be safer to regulate the sale, so the contents can be specified?
- sjbase 9y ago
  I think your top comment is being interpreted as "not responsible enough to use [any form of psilocybin]" - that's how I read it until I saw this comment, which makes me think you were actually referring to dosage safety and presence of toxins. I strongly disagree with the first interpretation: I can't imagine any connection between identifying plants and having the introspection and self-criticality to know if, when and how much of a psychoactive substance to use. But I agree on the dosage/toxicity aspect. Way more stochastic than what your everyday recreational alcohol or marijuana user is probably used to.
  - Alex3917 9y ago
    > I can't imagine any connection between identifying plants and having the introspection and self-criticality to know if, when and how much of a psychoactive substance to use. So the precedent I'd cite is with Hindu ashrams, where they're not going to impart any sort of esoteric spiritual training unless you're already brushing your teeth every day, keeping your room tidy, can hold a job, etc. The connection is that a lot of the higher-level practices can be profoundly destabilizing, so ensuring that people are continually performing the baseline tasks necessary to be a semi-functional adult is a good way to reduce the likelihood of people completely losing their shit. With mushroom identification you need to join a community of likeminded people, put in the time needed to learn, scout the correct terrain, go to the right place during the right weather conditions, etc. It's not super complicated, but it's a good baseline to weed out the sort of people who become statistics after eating a handful of random drugs without knowing what they are, the dosage, the expected effects, etc. Whether it's making people pass a driver's license type test, making them identify the plants or fungi in the wild, making them extract or synthesize the substances themselves, etc., I think the best drug policy is policy that allows anyone to consume any substance but which discourages people from impulsively swallowing handfuls of random stuff.

Alex3917 9y ago

I don't think psilocybin should be scheduled, and I think folks should be able to buy pure psilocybin, psilocin, 4-ACO-DMT, etc. online under the driver's license model. But I don't really see any reason for mushrooms themselves to be legal to sell, given that it's just an unknown dose of psilocybin that comes in a form that's mainly of interest for historic and spiritual reasons. It seems to me that selling mushrooms themselves should still be at least a misdemeanor and come with a substantial fine.

gothroach 9y ago
What do you mean by the driver's license model? Similar to buying pseudoephedrine?
- Alex3917 9y ago
  The model of drug regulation that Rick Doblin advocates for, where you would need to pass a test to be able to use a certain class of substances. http://realitysandwich.com/165390/state_psychedelic_research_interview_rick_doblin/ http://realitysandwich.com/165390/state_psychedelic_research...
  - gothroach 9y ago
    That's really interesting - I hadn't heard of it before, but it makes a lot of sense.
carbocation 9y ago
OK, I see what you're getting at, I think. Basically, if people have a mushrooms, protecting them from legal jeopardy. I think the issue with this is that the acquisition of unregulated mushrooms will be no safer. Wouldn't it be safer to regulate the sale, so the contents can be specified?
sjbase 9y ago
I think your top comment is being interpreted as "not responsible enough to use [any form of psilocybin]" - that's how I read it until I saw this comment, which makes me think you were actually referring to dosage safety and presence of toxins. I strongly disagree with the first interpretation: I can't imagine any connection between identifying plants and having the introspection and self-criticality to know if, when and how much of a psychoactive substance to use. But I agree on the dosage/toxicity aspect. Way more stochastic than what your everyday recreational alcohol or marijuana user is probably used to.
- Alex3917 9y ago
  > I can't imagine any connection between identifying plants and having the introspection and self-criticality to know if, when and how much of a psychoactive substance to use. So the precedent I'd cite is with Hindu ashrams, where they're not going to impart any sort of esoteric spiritual training unless you're already brushing your teeth every day, keeping your room tidy, can hold a job, etc. The connection is that a lot of the higher-level practices can be profoundly destabilizing, so ensuring that people are continually performing the baseline tasks necessary to be a semi-functional adult is a good way to reduce the likelihood of people completely losing their shit. With mushroom identification you need to join a community of likeminded people, put in the time needed to learn, scout the correct terrain, go to the right place during the right weather conditions, etc. It's not super complicated, but it's a good baseline to weed out the sort of people who become statistics after eating a handful of random drugs without knowing what they are, the dosage, the expected effects, etc. Whether it's making people pass a driver's license type test, making them identify the plants or fungi in the wild, making them extract or synthesize the substances themselves, etc., I think the best drug policy is policy that allows anyone to consume any substance but which discourages people from impulsively swallowing handfuls of random stuff.