4 ms·

So where does it end. Do they remove maps and videos and images too? Google is not a web search engine, it's a search engine. It finds things. The EU's positio

So where does it end. Do they remove maps and videos and images too? Google is not a web search engine, it's a search engine. It finds things. The EU's position, taken to its logical conclusion, would push European web search 15 years into the past.

icebraining 9y ago
Google isn't prevented from having a product search, just from inserting those results before the regular web results. Similarly, Google wouldn't have to remove images or videos, just not embed them directly on top of the web search results. Seems OK to me, and hardly pushing "European web search 15 years into the past."
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cromwellian 9y ago
  Which basically means inserting pointless extra clicks into the user flow. And think about how horrible this would be for voice interfaces: "hey google, where can I buy Doritos" "ok, let me redirect you to voice product search. Hi, I'm voice product search, please restate your question."
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    Is protecting fair competition "pointless"? I'd argue having one or two clicks extra as something that protects us from a monopolistic corporate overlord to be clicks well spent. But your example is also excessively alarmist and obtuse. A competition-respecting voice search client would be configurable. Aka, that it should perhaps be illegal for Google Assistant to automatically play music from Google Play Music, but that it allow you to choose a provider, including Amazon Prime Music, Groove Music, etc. Once a user has indicated their preference, the regular flow would be automatic. This would likely be for product search as well, you might select that you want to look up products via Amazon or Walmart. Surely piping data from one application into another is not new territory.
    - cromwellian 9y ago
      > Is protecting fair competition "pointless"? Why should a search engine send me to other search engines? Sending someone to Amazon Prime Music for the the query "Play me X" is like following a link from Google to a SERP result, which is what Google already does. I don't see a problem with that. But that's different than the Product Search example of where Foundem wanted Google to send a query like "Headphone prices" to a SERP page which would include a link which takes the user to yet another SERP page. Users expect searches to yield answers, not more searches. When I want to buy headphones, show me 10 Amazon links if you must that directly link to the landing pages for buying them, but don't show me 10 links, each of which, is a link to another search product search product. When I ask what the weather is, I don't want to be search to a search box on Weather.com. When I ask if my flight's delayed, I don't want a link to be taken to Flightstatus.com so I can re-run the query.
      - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
        Actually, in the example here, you're wrong: Google Home/Assistant only works with proprietary Google products[1], like Play Music and YouTube Red, with the exception of Spotify... which isn't a competitor for the same type of music service. (And heck, Spotify is a huge Google Cloud customer[2]. Google's still feeding their own here.) It's an excellent example of how Google uses monopolistic design to prevent you from using say, a voice assistant with someone else's music service. Google should be required, by law, to permit Amazon Prime Music, Groove Music (Microsoft), and Apple's iTunes to integrate should those companies so choose. Note that when you search for music on Bing [3], it offers up links to buy it Amazon and Apple as well as Microsoft's own service, whereas Google points you to YouTube [4]. Google is playing by a very unfair set of rules compared to most others. In your weather example, maybe I can pick which weather site provides my preferred weather results. Or Google can pass my flight status request right into flightstatus.com and return information... again, leaving that option open for any of their competitors. The problem here remains that Google primarily feeds into Google, which is, as the EU has clarified, illegal. [1] https://support.google.com/googlehome/answer/7030379?hl=en https://support.google.com/googlehome/answer/7030379?hl=en [2] https://www.wired.com/2016/02/spotify-moves-itself-onto-googles-cloud-lucky-for-google/ https://www.wired.com/2016/02/spotify-moves-itself-onto-goog... [3] https://www.bing.com/search?q=lady+gaga+the+cure https://www.bing.com/search?q=lady+gaga+the+cure [4] https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=lady+gaga+the+cure https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=lady+gaga+the+cure
  - IanCal 9y ago
    Or they have to provide an interface for other services to hook into. If I build a better comparison shopping service, wouldn't it be good if that could end up at the top in the same format? > And think about how horrible this would be for voice interfaces: "hey google, where can I buy Doritos" "ok, let me redirect you to voice product search. Hi, I'm voice product search, please restate your question." Or how good it would be as your query goes through straight to a better product search engine than the one google has.
dx034 9y ago
Maybe giving the option which maps widget to show would be a solution. That way users could also use bing maps or openstreetmap instead of Google Maps. Would be clearly beneficial for the user and technically feasible.

icebraining 9y ago

Google isn't prevented from having a product search, just from inserting those results before the regular web results. Similarly, Google wouldn't have to remove images or videos, just not embed them directly on top of the web search results. Seems OK to me, and hardly pushing "European web search 15 years into the past."

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cromwellian 9y ago
Which basically means inserting pointless extra clicks into the user flow. And think about how horrible this would be for voice interfaces: "hey google, where can I buy Doritos" "ok, let me redirect you to voice product search. Hi, I'm voice product search, please restate your question."
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Is protecting fair competition "pointless"? I'd argue having one or two clicks extra as something that protects us from a monopolistic corporate overlord to be clicks well spent. But your example is also excessively alarmist and obtuse. A competition-respecting voice search client would be configurable. Aka, that it should perhaps be illegal for Google Assistant to automatically play music from Google Play Music, but that it allow you to choose a provider, including Amazon Prime Music, Groove Music, etc. Once a user has indicated their preference, the regular flow would be automatic. This would likely be for product search as well, you might select that you want to look up products via Amazon or Walmart. Surely piping data from one application into another is not new territory.
  - cromwellian 9y ago
    > Is protecting fair competition "pointless"? Why should a search engine send me to other search engines? Sending someone to Amazon Prime Music for the the query "Play me X" is like following a link from Google to a SERP result, which is what Google already does. I don't see a problem with that. But that's different than the Product Search example of where Foundem wanted Google to send a query like "Headphone prices" to a SERP page which would include a link which takes the user to yet another SERP page. Users expect searches to yield answers, not more searches. When I want to buy headphones, show me 10 Amazon links if you must that directly link to the landing pages for buying them, but don't show me 10 links, each of which, is a link to another search product search product. When I ask what the weather is, I don't want to be search to a search box on Weather.com. When I ask if my flight's delayed, I don't want a link to be taken to Flightstatus.com so I can re-run the query.
    - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
      Actually, in the example here, you're wrong: Google Home/Assistant only works with proprietary Google products[1], like Play Music and YouTube Red, with the exception of Spotify... which isn't a competitor for the same type of music service. (And heck, Spotify is a huge Google Cloud customer[2]. Google's still feeding their own here.) It's an excellent example of how Google uses monopolistic design to prevent you from using say, a voice assistant with someone else's music service. Google should be required, by law, to permit Amazon Prime Music, Groove Music (Microsoft), and Apple's iTunes to integrate should those companies so choose. Note that when you search for music on Bing [3], it offers up links to buy it Amazon and Apple as well as Microsoft's own service, whereas Google points you to YouTube [4]. Google is playing by a very unfair set of rules compared to most others. In your weather example, maybe I can pick which weather site provides my preferred weather results. Or Google can pass my flight status request right into flightstatus.com and return information... again, leaving that option open for any of their competitors. The problem here remains that Google primarily feeds into Google, which is, as the EU has clarified, illegal. [1] https://support.google.com/googlehome/answer/7030379?hl=en https://support.google.com/googlehome/answer/7030379?hl=en [2] https://www.wired.com/2016/02/spotify-moves-itself-onto-googles-cloud-lucky-for-google/ https://www.wired.com/2016/02/spotify-moves-itself-onto-goog... [3] https://www.bing.com/search?q=lady+gaga+the+cure https://www.bing.com/search?q=lady+gaga+the+cure [4] https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=lady+gaga+the+cure https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=lady+gaga+the+cure
- IanCal 9y ago
  Or they have to provide an interface for other services to hook into. If I build a better comparison shopping service, wouldn't it be good if that could end up at the top in the same format? > And think about how horrible this would be for voice interfaces: "hey google, where can I buy Doritos" "ok, let me redirect you to voice product search. Hi, I'm voice product search, please restate your question." Or how good it would be as your query goes through straight to a better product search engine than the one google has.

dx034 9y ago

Maybe giving the option which maps widget to show would be a solution. That way users could also use bing maps or openstreetmap instead of Google Maps. Would be clearly beneficial for the user and technically feasible.