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Women Entrepreneurs Created a Fake Male Cofounder to Dodge Startup Sexism

65 points by jenny8lee 9y ago

wpietri 9y ago
An excellent story, and entirely relevant. I'm disappointed that this keeps getting flagged.
- coloneltcb 9y ago
  agree on all counts. the flagging of this story reinforces what these entrepreneurs were up against.
  - sctb 9y ago
    This story was originally killed by the software because it was submitted with a link shortener.
    - wpietri 9y ago
      Huh. Was it killed manually subsequent to that?
      - sctb 9y ago
        Users vouched for it and then we updated the URL, and to my knowledge it hasn't died since then.
sctb 9y ago
We've updated the link from https://apple.news/Aric4YYSmRzWy1eAlVj_Dyg https://apple.news/Aric4YYSmRzWy1eAlVj_Dyg which redirected to this.
Uhhrrr 9y ago
Here is an interview with them, from July: http://www.dumdumzine.com/text-message-interview-with-witchsy-by-megan-ranger/ http://www.dumdumzine.com/text-message-interview-with-witchs... Their personalities seem pretty effervescent. This might also have contributed to the need to create a persona who just says, "OK, I need that status update."
- tomlock 9y ago
  That interview seems deliberately casual though. Could it be that sometimes the perception that someone is "effervescent" is attributable to a tendency to perceive women as "effervescent"?
  - anaheim_ducks 9y ago
    Bingo. Does he seriously think the two women would write emails the same way they would give interviews?
    - Mz 9y ago
      I'm a woman. I tend to effervesce. I actively work at toning things down. I wonder a lot how much of that is innate wiring and how much of that is socialization. But, generally speaking, when a guy does the same thing, it gets interpreted as gay. Stereotypes tend to come from somewhere. We don't just make them up whole cloth due to innate assholery. I don't have all the answers. In fact, I am not sure I have any answers. But I feel like I am finally starting to ask the right questions. And one of those questions is "Am I really just innately feminine or is my concept of femininity a learned cultural construct that is not serving me well?"
      - tiggybear 9y ago
        Im hesitant to even type this, but I've had similar thoughts. If a lot of gender is just a construct and our gender roles are rooted in a time when women were taught to be subservient to men, then it's highly possible that a lot of traits that are deemed "feminine" are just traits that were taught to women to make them subservient/less competitive/etc. So maybe being timid, shy, soft-spoken, and like traits should not be considered "feminine" in a biological sense. They should be considered traits that make you less likely to get what you want and much more likely to be taken advantage of. And those traits were included in the feminine construct of yesterday to make women easier to control. So maybe it's ok to discriminate against some of those traits when hiring because you aren't discriminating against biological traits but rather learned traits that may or may not make you more productive in certain environments.
CodeWriter23 9y ago
Taking a page out of Laura Holt's playbook. Brilliant!
- rodgerd 9y ago
  That was my first thought - but while it's a clever response to a problem, it's more sad that it's necessary and that it works.
dallashoxton 9y ago
I guess fraud is OK and laudable if it's done in service of some SJW pet issue huh?
aaron695 9y ago
> Early on a web developer they brought on to help build the site tried to stealthily delete everything after Gazin declined to go on a date with him. Really? Or as artists did they have no idea wtf he was doing technically and made this up in their heads. Sorry, artists do not make for good business people or logical purveyors of the world. They do however make (hopefully) great art.
- sctb 9y ago
  Could you please not post such inflammatory unsubstantive claims? We're trying to have a civil discussion around some semblance of a shared reality and comments like this get in the way and worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - aaron695 9y ago
    How does one "tried to stealthily delete everything" in a code base for a site. Explain how one goes about this technically? For any web dev who's dealt with clients, this rings of a 'type' of common client who has no idea what you are doing but sees ghosts on every corner. This piece is amazing advertising for the site. Great marketing. But I'll call it as I see it. This is at least embellished to try and get VC capital / hits. I have no problem with fake it till you make it. But I'll still call it. I was only commenting on the nonsense/not the full story of "because of a refused date a contractor goes evil" but I'd like to see these emails. Did the reporter? Did they fact check? They have not said they did, so I'd guess no. Did they follow up the contractor for comment? This is what real reporting is. If the objection is about artists. Point stands. 99% of people are not great at many things. It's a common saying great at X but a bad salesperson.
DarkKomunalec 9y ago
Whoopi did it first: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115580/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115580/
baalimago 9y ago
Where do they find so unprofessional webdesigners..?
squozzer 9y ago
As an old dude, not sure I would enjoy working with these two ladies, but then again my favorite pair of ladies are Daria and Jane -- it's the boots, I think.

65 points by jenny8lee 9y ago

wpietri 9y ago

An excellent story, and entirely relevant. I'm disappointed that this keeps getting flagged.

coloneltcb 9y ago
agree on all counts. the flagging of this story reinforces what these entrepreneurs were up against.
- sctb 9y ago
  This story was originally killed by the software because it was submitted with a link shortener.
  - wpietri 9y ago
    Huh. Was it killed manually subsequent to that?
    - sctb 9y ago
      Users vouched for it and then we updated the URL, and to my knowledge it hasn't died since then.

sctb 9y ago

We've updated the link from https://apple.news/Aric4YYSmRzWy1eAlVj_Dyg https://apple.news/Aric4YYSmRzWy1eAlVj_Dyg which redirected to this.

Uhhrrr 9y ago

Here is an interview with them, from July: http://www.dumdumzine.com/text-message-interview-with-witchsy-by-megan-ranger/ http://www.dumdumzine.com/text-message-interview-with-witchs... Their personalities seem pretty effervescent. This might also have contributed to the need to create a persona who just says, "OK, I need that status update."

tomlock 9y ago
That interview seems deliberately casual though. Could it be that sometimes the perception that someone is "effervescent" is attributable to a tendency to perceive women as "effervescent"?
- anaheim_ducks 9y ago
  Bingo. Does he seriously think the two women would write emails the same way they would give interviews?
  - Mz 9y ago
    I'm a woman. I tend to effervesce. I actively work at toning things down. I wonder a lot how much of that is innate wiring and how much of that is socialization. But, generally speaking, when a guy does the same thing, it gets interpreted as gay. Stereotypes tend to come from somewhere. We don't just make them up whole cloth due to innate assholery. I don't have all the answers. In fact, I am not sure I have any answers. But I feel like I am finally starting to ask the right questions. And one of those questions is "Am I really just innately feminine or is my concept of femininity a learned cultural construct that is not serving me well?"
    - tiggybear 9y ago
      Im hesitant to even type this, but I've had similar thoughts. If a lot of gender is just a construct and our gender roles are rooted in a time when women were taught to be subservient to men, then it's highly possible that a lot of traits that are deemed "feminine" are just traits that were taught to women to make them subservient/less competitive/etc. So maybe being timid, shy, soft-spoken, and like traits should not be considered "feminine" in a biological sense. They should be considered traits that make you less likely to get what you want and much more likely to be taken advantage of. And those traits were included in the feminine construct of yesterday to make women easier to control. So maybe it's ok to discriminate against some of those traits when hiring because you aren't discriminating against biological traits but rather learned traits that may or may not make you more productive in certain environments.

CodeWriter23 9y ago

Taking a page out of Laura Holt's playbook. Brilliant!

rodgerd 9y ago
That was my first thought - but while it's a clever response to a problem, it's more sad that it's necessary and that it works.

dallashoxton 9y ago

I guess fraud is OK and laudable if it's done in service of some SJW pet issue huh?

aaron695 9y ago

> Early on a web developer they brought on to help build the site tried to stealthily delete everything after Gazin declined to go on a date with him. Really? Or as artists did they have no idea wtf he was doing technically and made this up in their heads. Sorry, artists do not make for good business people or logical purveyors of the world. They do however make (hopefully) great art.

sctb 9y ago
Could you please not post such inflammatory unsubstantive claims? We're trying to have a civil discussion around some semblance of a shared reality and comments like this get in the way and worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- aaron695 9y ago
  How does one "tried to stealthily delete everything" in a code base for a site. Explain how one goes about this technically? For any web dev who's dealt with clients, this rings of a 'type' of common client who has no idea what you are doing but sees ghosts on every corner. This piece is amazing advertising for the site. Great marketing. But I'll call it as I see it. This is at least embellished to try and get VC capital / hits. I have no problem with fake it till you make it. But I'll still call it. I was only commenting on the nonsense/not the full story of "because of a refused date a contractor goes evil" but I'd like to see these emails. Did the reporter? Did they fact check? They have not said they did, so I'd guess no. Did they follow up the contractor for comment? This is what real reporting is. If the objection is about artists. Point stands. 99% of people are not great at many things. It's a common saying great at X but a bad salesperson.

DarkKomunalec 9y ago

Whoopi did it first: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115580/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115580/

baalimago 9y ago

Where do they find so unprofessional webdesigners..?

squozzer 9y ago

As an old dude, not sure I would enjoy working with these two ladies, but then again my favorite pair of ladies are Daria and Jane -- it's the boots, I think.