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> Just because people have accepted something doesn't mean they deem it "acceptable". Actually, that is exactly, literally what it means. Perhaps you mean that

by jack6e 9y ago

> Just because people have accepted something doesn't mean they deem it "acceptable". Actually, that is exactly, literally what it means. Perhaps you mean that just because we find something acceptable, we don't deem it moral, or optimal, or desirable. The distressing reality presented in the interview is that we accept non-benevolent, non-ideal options because they are good enough to be accepted, and not bad enough to be rejected. But accepting something, by definition, means you consider it accept-able, or, "able to be accepted."

nocman 9y ago
Yeah I knew someone would come back with that -- but that's only true if you tie a very strict one-to-one meaning between every use of the verb "accept" and the adjective "acceptable". Words have subtle meanings. If you paid attention to my post, I was clearly drawing a line between the fact that people accept the fact that they really don't have a good alternative to using, say, Google. But they may not find it acceptable that Google data mines their searches to sell their info to advertisers. So while they "accept" their situation, they clearly don't find it "acceptable". Much as you might accept the fact that you have to work for a boss who is a jerk, because you have no other employment options. So you don't find the situation acceptable, but you have to accept it anyway.
- axedwool 9y ago
  I don't think people in an unacceptable situation 'accept' it. With your example of unacceptable workplaces, they express their resentment in other ways. Maybe they find the minimum they can produce without being disciplined and only do that much. Maybe they spread malicious gossip at the office. Maybe they go home and abuse their spouse or children. Maybe they become alcoholics, or political extremists, or religious fanatics. Maybe they become depressed and commit suicide. The world offers plenty of examples. People trapped in situations they find unacceptable don't suffer in silence; they become pathological, dangerous people. The issues of unacceptable mass surveillance can and will, eventually, cause some kind of response by people who don't accept it. If there are a lot of those people, I doubt the response will be pretty.
  - nocman 9y ago
    Here again is another example of the subtlety of words. The fact that someone "accepts" a situation doesn't automatically mean that they are happy about it, and it also doesn't mean that they do nothing to change it. It can just mean that they realize that is the way it is for now, and they deal with it as best they can -- often while looking for ways to change the situation. Also, while it is true that people do often respond to unacceptable situations in extreme ways, it is most definitely not the case that people always do so. There is a such thing as patience and perseverance, and people do often accept that they are in an unacceptable situation for a time (often a very long time), while actively seeking to change the situation. People can overcome adversity. The phrase "People trapped in situations they find unacceptable don't suffer in silence; they become pathological, dangerous people." is most definitely not universally true. It does happen yes, but many people also just press on and keep looking for a way out until they find it. And yes, some of them do suffer in silence without becoming "pathological, dangerous people". One common example is a case where an unacceptable situation permits them to achieve something that is more important to them. For instance, people work some pretty nasty jobs (either due to jerk employers/employees, or just the necessary work conditions of the job -- some jobs are hot/smelly/hard-on-the-body, etc). But there are people who take and/or keep these kind of jobs in order to feed their families. Often they have tried to find other work, but lack the necessary skills, or there just isn't any other work available. So these people work under these conditions only because that's the only route to feeding their families. It is an admirable thing to do, and I find it sad that so many people don't respect others who make that kind of sacrifice in order to take care of others.

by jack6e 9y ago

nocman 9y ago

Yeah I knew someone would come back with that -- but that's only true if you tie a very strict one-to-one meaning between every use of the verb "accept" and the adjective "acceptable". Words have subtle meanings. If you paid attention to my post, I was clearly drawing a line between the fact that people accept the fact that they really don't have a good alternative to using, say, Google. But they may not find it acceptable that Google data mines their searches to sell their info to advertisers. So while they "accept" their situation, they clearly don't find it "acceptable". Much as you might accept the fact that you have to work for a boss who is a jerk, because you have no other employment options. So you don't find the situation acceptable, but you have to accept it anyway.

axedwool 9y ago
I don't think people in an unacceptable situation 'accept' it. With your example of unacceptable workplaces, they express their resentment in other ways. Maybe they find the minimum they can produce without being disciplined and only do that much. Maybe they spread malicious gossip at the office. Maybe they go home and abuse their spouse or children. Maybe they become alcoholics, or political extremists, or religious fanatics. Maybe they become depressed and commit suicide. The world offers plenty of examples. People trapped in situations they find unacceptable don't suffer in silence; they become pathological, dangerous people. The issues of unacceptable mass surveillance can and will, eventually, cause some kind of response by people who don't accept it. If there are a lot of those people, I doubt the response will be pretty.
- nocman 9y ago
  Here again is another example of the subtlety of words. The fact that someone "accepts" a situation doesn't automatically mean that they are happy about it, and it also doesn't mean that they do nothing to change it. It can just mean that they realize that is the way it is for now, and they deal with it as best they can -- often while looking for ways to change the situation. Also, while it is true that people do often respond to unacceptable situations in extreme ways, it is most definitely not the case that people always do so. There is a such thing as patience and perseverance, and people do often accept that they are in an unacceptable situation for a time (often a very long time), while actively seeking to change the situation. People can overcome adversity. The phrase "People trapped in situations they find unacceptable don't suffer in silence; they become pathological, dangerous people." is most definitely not universally true. It does happen yes, but many people also just press on and keep looking for a way out until they find it. And yes, some of them do suffer in silence without becoming "pathological, dangerous people". One common example is a case where an unacceptable situation permits them to achieve something that is more important to them. For instance, people work some pretty nasty jobs (either due to jerk employers/employees, or just the necessary work conditions of the job -- some jobs are hot/smelly/hard-on-the-body, etc). But there are people who take and/or keep these kind of jobs in order to feed their families. Often they have tried to find other work, but lack the necessary skills, or there just isn't any other work available. So these people work under these conditions only because that's the only route to feeding their families. It is an admirable thing to do, and I find it sad that so many people don't respect others who make that kind of sacrifice in order to take care of others.