3 ms·

The difficult part isn't getting people to understand that Internet privacy is important or at risk; nearly every person that I know (tech-savvy or not) underst

The difficult part isn't getting people to understand that Internet privacy is important or at risk; nearly every person that I know (tech-savvy or not) understands that companies like Google and Facebook are in the business of collecting their data, and don't want them to. However, companies like these have human habit on their side: most people use these services daily, and will continue doing so unless it's easier or more convenient to do otherwise. That means that in order to reverse the trend of users continuously using these services, an alternative must be created that's better in every way, and default on all platforms that people use. In the case of Facebook, it's a chicken-and-egg problem: many people that I know will not use another social media platform because nobody else that they know uses it, but nobody else that they know uses it because they don't use it.

tcd 9y ago
> and don't want them to...an alternative must be created Of course, collecting user data is fundamental to providing these services, for FREE - without this, Youtube's algorithm would be awful and Google Maps wouldn't be able to show real time information, and you would be paying for all of the services users want for free. If it's free, you are usually the product, and information just so happens to be the currency of choice. I very much doubt people would pay for search, maps, youtube, keep, plus, email, translate, android, allo, duo, docs/sheets/slides, chrome, earth... And many, many more listed here: https://www.google.com/intl/en/about/products/ https://www.google.com/intl/en/about/products/
Kadin 9y ago
It's worth remembering how Facebook got to the userbase that it currently has -- they didn't start out targeting "everyone on the planet", which is an almost impossibly hard challenge because of the network effects you note. Instead, they started off providing closed social networks for existing groups of users -- colleges, starting with a small number of elite colleges and slowly broadening out from there -- until eventually it became a public social network and the de facto standard at least within the US. The networks that have attempted from the start to get everyone to sign up have mostly failed. E.g. Google Plus, which had some feature advantages over FB at the time, started out much too ambitiously in my opinion and suffered from a "Potemkin village" issue where (unless you had a circle of friends who all joined it) it felt empty, and I suspect many users never used it more than a few times. The only recent network I've seen to go the Facebook route is Nextdoor, which at least in my anecdotal experience seems to be becoming a thing. By providing a semi-closed social network based on physical proximity (neighborhoods), it provides immediate value to a new user. I'm not sure of the details of their rollout strategy, but at least at one point they insisted on mailing you a physical postcard in order to verify your address (much like FB's original validation on specific .edu email domains). Anyway, if anyone out there is thinking of challenging Facebook on the social-network front, I would put some significant thought into the rollout strategy and aim not to compete with Facebook circa 2017, but instead to compete with Facebook circa 2004. As other networks have opened themselves up, there's a constant vacuum at the lower, more-specific, more-exclusive, closed end of the spectrum which provides a lower barrier to entry.
- SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
  I think discord has better potential to be the next social media juggernaut, I know most of my social media interaction goes through discord. As our lives move more and more online discord seems to be the digital equivalent of the roman forums and I appreciate the ability to jump into a conversation with my friends in the same way I would IRL. Mostly I appreciate the ability to be parts of different groups, the ease with which you can join groups, and the fact that you can host your own friend group. I realize this isn't Discord's mission statement or intent but it is a position they find themselves in.
  - lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
    I love how, in a thread about the uncertainty of internet privacy, you're here slinging praises to a walled garden service that owns all of your chats. Another walled garden interested in collecting information and slinging adds to pay back VC funds is the last thing the internet needs and the fact that it's so successful is a better indicator than anything else that the consumer doesn't care a lick about privacy.
    - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
      You can't unopen Pandora's Box, and trying to close it is a bit of a sisphyian task. Might as well enjoy the terrors of the box.
      - lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
        But there are better chat solutions out there. Discord is pretty awful, terrible audio quality, limited room sizes, the aforementioned privacy concerns stemming from no self hosting and lack of interoperability with other chat protocols. When technologies like Matrix [matrix.org] exist and we've had superior dedicated voip programs (mumble et al) for decades there's nothing appealing about discord is the AoL mail of chat clients; great for people with 0 interest in technology, but, why.
EGreg 9y ago
http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169 http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169

tcd 9y ago

> and don't want them to...an alternative must be created Of course, collecting user data is fundamental to providing these services, for FREE - without this, Youtube's algorithm would be awful and Google Maps wouldn't be able to show real time information, and you would be paying for all of the services users want for free. If it's free, you are usually the product, and information just so happens to be the currency of choice. I very much doubt people would pay for search, maps, youtube, keep, plus, email, translate, android, allo, duo, docs/sheets/slides, chrome, earth... And many, many more listed here: https://www.google.com/intl/en/about/products/ https://www.google.com/intl/en/about/products/

Kadin 9y ago

It's worth remembering how Facebook got to the userbase that it currently has -- they didn't start out targeting "everyone on the planet", which is an almost impossibly hard challenge because of the network effects you note. Instead, they started off providing closed social networks for existing groups of users -- colleges, starting with a small number of elite colleges and slowly broadening out from there -- until eventually it became a public social network and the de facto standard at least within the US. The networks that have attempted from the start to get everyone to sign up have mostly failed. E.g. Google Plus, which had some feature advantages over FB at the time, started out much too ambitiously in my opinion and suffered from a "Potemkin village" issue where (unless you had a circle of friends who all joined it) it felt empty, and I suspect many users never used it more than a few times. The only recent network I've seen to go the Facebook route is Nextdoor, which at least in my anecdotal experience seems to be becoming a thing. By providing a semi-closed social network based on physical proximity (neighborhoods), it provides immediate value to a new user. I'm not sure of the details of their rollout strategy, but at least at one point they insisted on mailing you a physical postcard in order to verify your address (much like FB's original validation on specific .edu email domains). Anyway, if anyone out there is thinking of challenging Facebook on the social-network front, I would put some significant thought into the rollout strategy and aim not to compete with Facebook circa 2017, but instead to compete with Facebook circa 2004. As other networks have opened themselves up, there's a constant vacuum at the lower, more-specific, more-exclusive, closed end of the spectrum which provides a lower barrier to entry.

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
I think discord has better potential to be the next social media juggernaut, I know most of my social media interaction goes through discord. As our lives move more and more online discord seems to be the digital equivalent of the roman forums and I appreciate the ability to jump into a conversation with my friends in the same way I would IRL. Mostly I appreciate the ability to be parts of different groups, the ease with which you can join groups, and the fact that you can host your own friend group. I realize this isn't Discord's mission statement or intent but it is a position they find themselves in.
- lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
  I love how, in a thread about the uncertainty of internet privacy, you're here slinging praises to a walled garden service that owns all of your chats. Another walled garden interested in collecting information and slinging adds to pay back VC funds is the last thing the internet needs and the fact that it's so successful is a better indicator than anything else that the consumer doesn't care a lick about privacy.
  - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
    You can't unopen Pandora's Box, and trying to close it is a bit of a sisphyian task. Might as well enjoy the terrors of the box.
    - lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
      But there are better chat solutions out there. Discord is pretty awful, terrible audio quality, limited room sizes, the aforementioned privacy concerns stemming from no self hosting and lack of interoperability with other chat protocols. When technologies like Matrix [matrix.org] exist and we've had superior dedicated voip programs (mumble et al) for decades there's nothing appealing about discord is the AoL mail of chat clients; great for people with 0 interest in technology, but, why.

EGreg 9y ago

http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169 http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169