8 ms·

> However, in a later conversation, he warned that they could be used for money laundering and ransomware payments. Maybe I just don't get it but I found this

> However, in a later conversation, he warned that they could be used for money laundering and ransomware payments. Maybe I just don't get it but I found this article unintentionally hilarious. First, the idea of running a distributed ledger to keep track of burger points. This is the tech equivalent of using a bazooka to address an ant problem. Second, the idea of money laundering and ransom ware...imagining Colombian drug lords cleaning narco dollars into Russian burger points, and my hard drive ending up infected...you can have your files back in exchange for 100 Whoppers in St. Petersburg. is this what a block chain bubble looks like?

IgorPartola 9y ago
The latter point isn't necessarily as crazy as it sounds. I remember there was something about money laundering through Second Life currency. In the end, does it really matter how you do it, if it works? Your first point is a little funny, until you remember all those people who also kept saying that BTC isn't the only thing and replacing fiat currency isn't the only goal. I don't see a problem with it, other than being somewhat wasteful.
- colechristensen 9y ago
  Tide laundry detergent is a popular black market currency http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/ http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/
  - nwatson 9y ago
    Prisoners use >> cans of mackerel << as currency: https://www.wired.com/2011/01/st_prisoncurrencies/ https://www.wired.com/2011/01/st_prisoncurrencies/ .
- ryanlol 9y ago
  >I remember there was something about money laundering through Second Life currency. I don't think this was ever actually a thing, some people just speculated about the possibility.
  - mustacheemperor 9y ago
    Both WOW Gold and Second Life "linden dollars" were and are major black market currency tools online. A cursory google search would prove your statement quite false but here's some sources anyway: https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/03/26/bitcoins-not-tax-fairy-dust-second-life-still-a-tax-haven/#2e35de606615 https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/03/26/bitcoin... http://www.wired.co.uk/article/money-laundering-online http://www.wired.co.uk/article/money-laundering-online
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      Neither of those articles contains anything even hinting towards my statement being false. Their contents are merely speculation. I've got a decent amount of experience with this, and I'm certain there's never been any large scale money laundering activity using Linden dollars. The idea is simply ridiculous, the economy isn't large enough to support it.
      - mustacheemperor 9y ago
        Sorry, was the arxiv paper[0] linked in the Wired article not sufficient? I'm not regional expert on this subject myself so if you've got contrary information I'd be interested in reading it. It's my assumption Wow's economy is much larger than SL's, and I'd also assume that in aggregate these different digital economies are more than large enough to hide transactions. That's speculation on my own part, though, and if you have any actual evidence other than claiming "decent experience" I'm interested. I'm not sure what the definition of "large scale money laundering" is in this situation. [0][https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1310/1310.2368.pdf https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1310/1310.2368.pdf
        ryanlol 9y ago
        Did you actually look at the paper? The primary sources are videogame cheating forums like Ownedcore, not really where I'd go for money laundering advice. The posts seem to be mostly related to laundering stolen ingame money, not funds acquired elsewhere. There's also one entirely speculative post (again from a videogame cheating forum) proposing a completely unrealistic, and ridiculously expensive approach to money laundering by buying and reselling videogame money. The paper seems to have been written by mostly clueless people with little understanding of these communities or money laundering.
- lgierth 9y ago
  Are whoppers a scarce resource?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - IgorPartola 9y ago
    Do they have to be?
  - pjmorris 9y ago
    Scarcer than US dollars.
    - B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago
      The Heinlein prediction of Crazy Years and "barter-only hamburgers" is a bit later to come around than originally projected, but the curve does not seem totally wrong ...
efnx 9y ago
Sounds Gibsonesque (or Stephensonesque).
- mortenjorck 9y ago
  No kidding. I can't decide whether this is more techno-culturally weird in the Gibsonian way, or more iconoclastically post-modern in the Stephensonian way.
  - Apocryphon 9y ago
    What would be the Sterlingesque way?
rando444 9y ago
It's questionable whether the ledger is even distributed. I read everything I could find on the platform though and couldn't find anything but marketing speak. https://wavesplatform.com/ https://wavesplatform.com/ They do link to their github, but that's a bit deeper dive than I have interest for at the moment.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  Waves is a proof of stake platform, there are several large pools staking. I mean maybe thats marketing speak if you don't understand it. The cool thing about waves is that its fun, and that you can lease to people that want to be pools and earn fun stuff. The questionable thing is if the leasing has resulted (or will result) in consolidation making it not distributed.
  - tragomaskhalos 9y ago
    Proof of steak ? (I'll get my coat)
    - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
      I mean if you found a relevant context to say it then you might have a good pun. People have made it before.
- schnevets 9y ago
  It reminds me of those stories from the 90s bubble, when companies would just add ".com" to their name to inflate their value. Are Russians really curious enough about blockchains for this to be effective, or did Burger King's marketing team just decide a $10,000 bitcoin proof-of-concept is more effective than spending an equal amount on traditional advertising?
  - abledon 9y ago
    If it cost them 10,000$. I bet they'll make it back just on the devs/geeks who want to get in on the silliness of it, id say minimum 2000 devs in Russia would buy a whopper to get some whoppercoin, 2000x5$ = 10,000. Make money back and get exposure haha
baybal2 9y ago
Watch out for people with bags full of burgers
mcgarnagle 9y ago
Say what you will, at least the whoppercoins are backed by something that has survived the test of time, the whopper.
- jandrese 9y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3QRTToTLzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3QRTToTLzI
  - JVIDEL 9y ago
    You cut the best part
- harveywi 9y ago
  Garnishing whopper wages only makes them more delicious.
- test6554 9y ago
  Whopper coins being tied to whoppers is a one-way street. You can't just take some two week old whoppers to an ATM and feed the bread and patty into the machine to get whopper coins.
  - cgb223 9y ago
    Idk that video of the Big Mac that never decomposed after being left out for months shows some compelling evedence in the other direction...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - lemonycracket 9y ago
    Wtf you talking about. BK will allow you to redeem for Whopper's at their ATM/mobile Kiosk. The level of ignorance is juvenile. Would you rather implement, at non trivial expense, your own loyalty points. Or copy paste 50 lines of Solidity and call it a day and automatically be compatible with all ERC20 wallets?
rootsudo 9y ago
What better way to learn Blockchain then through a silly marketing campaign using someone elses money. The devs get to put down on their resume "real" block chain experience. I write this, because, if you look up block chain on indeed, you'll see some insane requirements. 5 years+ "blockchain experience." Ok, yeah, that's going to be real common. Five years ago most people weren't aware of block chain. Now, distributed database, "maybe."
- golergka 9y ago
  You'll see insane requirements everywhere. The real insanity is taking these requirements seriously.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  You see this for every skill though. I remember jobs requiring 5 years of Rails experience before Rails was that old and DHH commenting somewhere that he wouldn't qualify.
  - droidist2 9y ago
    Do they do that because they don't actually want to fill the job?
gexla 9y ago
Russian Intelligence: You're quite skinny for a guy who eats so many whoppers. Who are you working for?
- SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
  Russian Government.
- droidist2 9y ago
  He goes by the name Special Sauce. That's all I know.
gaius 9y ago
This is the tech equivalent of using a bazooka to address an ant problem. BK is a very sophisticated logistics operation - they probably employ some smart techs. This is just them having some fun, and why not?
- abledon 9y ago
  I like looking at the shitload of server racks and cables in the side room of the Burger King joint in my mall, it's like they have a cyborg or some monster plugged into a liquid nutrient bath back there. Yum, gonna order some chicken fries.
vanderZwan 9y ago
Between this and that famous KFC pop-up[0], I'm starting to think that fast food restaurants are at the forefront of abusing new technology for dumb purposes. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/6mevf4/kfc_germany_requires_6_clicks/ https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/6mevf4/kfc_g...
- tmerse 9y ago
  I bet you will love KFC's newest VR-endeavour [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3PJQ_E7Se0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3PJQ_E7Se0
  - vanderZwan 9y ago
    OMG, I thought that was a critical art piece or something, but it's actually really by KFC?! https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sick-vr-nightmare https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sic... https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sick-vr-nightmare https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sic...
VikingCoder 9y ago
...you use a computer to look at pictures of cats. That computer would be the greatest Wonder of the Ancient World, if it could be transported back in time, and powered (solar?) The computational power we all waste each day is almost beyond comprehension. I read a novel where it was illegal to not spend your spare CPU cycles modelling hurricanes.
clamprecht 9y ago
I recently signed up for a Starbucks Rewards card in Argentina. I had to state that I was not a "Politically Exposed Person (PEP)", and I had to provide my full name, passport number, date of birth, profession, civil status (married, divorced, widowed, single), and street address. Do they think I'm going to launder money by buying lattes? https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/register https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/register
- nandhp 9y ago
  US Starbucks Cards can be used in certain other countries[1], and international money transfer would be a plausible excuse for requiring such information. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for Argentine Starbucks cards[2]. [1] "Most Starbucks, Evolution Fresh and Teavana stores in North America including Puerto Rico accept your Starbucks Card. Certain Starbucks-branded locations may not permit you to use the Starbucks Card for payment, including some airport, grocery and bookstore locations, or stores in Guam and others located outside continental North America." https://www.starbucks.com/about-us/company-information/online-policies/terms-of-use/card https://www.starbucks.com/about-us/company-information/onlin... [2] "La Starbucks Card activada en Argentina no podrá ser utilizada en tiendas Starbucks ubicadas fuera de Argentina. La Starbucks Card activada fuera de Argentina no será válida en Argentina.", which Google translates as "The Starbucks Card activated in Argentina can not be used in Starbucks stores located outside Argentina. The Starbucks Card activated outside Argentina will not be valid in Argentina." https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/tos/card https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/tos/card
- sedachv 9y ago
  > Do they think I'm going to launder money by buying lattes? That is exactly what happens. Prepaid debit cards and gift cards were and maybe still are both major tools for cross-border money laundering of drug proceeds because they have not been treated with the same scrutiny by customs and border guards as cash. With gift cards, you would buy them in one country, take them to another (typically US), and sell them (on Craigslist, eBay, etc) for $0.98 on the dollar. So it is a very inexpensive and low risk way of international money laundering. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-regulations-moneylaundering-insig-idUSKCN10L0FC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-regulations-moneylaun...
cm2187 9y ago
My guess is that you are more likely to see a bitcoin-rich Russian teenage hacker than a Colombian drug lord. I think it's smart to try to get a cut of the ransomware business.
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
> First, the idea of running a distributed ledger to keep track of burger points. This is the tech equivalent of using a bazooka to address an ant problem. They aren't running it. They are using the Waves platform, which has very easy 1-click asset creation. Waves is also Proof of Stake, so there's no mining involved. This gives the transparency benefits and distribution benefits, without any of the overhead. Regarding distribution, waves platform has a culture of airdrops in it. I find Waves fun. Between leasing, the decentralized exchanges, the airdrops, the dividends, and finding out about the assets that got airdropped or dividended to you, I find myself in the app quite often unintentionally. The airdropped assets are mostly worthless, but the descriptions of the assets are interesting. I would say the fun aspect is different than other cryptocurrencies. Its like finding random stuff in Skyrim, keeps me coming back. For reference, I buy Waves and purchase Waves Community Tokens (WCT) on the decentralized exchange. Most airdrops go to WCT holders, they just take a record of the blockchain and send to all address with WCT balances. I lease my remaining Waves to the pools FountainPerpetua and WavesGo. There are plenty of other pools to lease to. Pools give payments in the form of Waves, because thats what they earn, but they also have the option of giving payments in other assets too, they just need to remain competitive. So I typically earn Waves, Waves Community Tokens and Miners Rewards tokens. The WavesGo pool gives WavesGo tokens which are actual shares and actual securities. WavesGo pools distributes more of its own earnings to all WavesGo holders. You can buy and sell more WavesGo shares on the decentralized exchange.
- moxious 9y ago
  Thanks for this comment -- it was very high quality and led me to spend 2 hours reading about this stuff. It looks pretty cool and I'm going to give it a shot. Reading about the fountains and several other community aspects really does make this seem unique and fun
norea-armozel 9y ago
Or maybe we're seeing the silliest version of Snowcrash come to life.
Apocryphon 9y ago
Haven't people been laundering money via in-game virtual items in different MMO games before? This is just another seemingly "frivolous" channel that humans can do unofficial exchange in.
c3534l 9y ago
Organized crime has used xbox multiplayer to communicate with each other to evade wiretaps[0], criminals have used tide as a currency[1], why not Burger King, too? [0] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2470702/cybercrime-hacking/law-enforcement--gangs--terrorists-plot-evil-over-xbox-and-ps3.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2470702/cybercrime-hac... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-are-criminals-stealing-tide-detergent-and-using-it-for-money/254631/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-are...
- x220 9y ago
  The best form of communication to circumvent surveillance is not Signal, it's some Japanese MMORPG that no one has ever heard of or ever think of monitoring.
JVIDEL 9y ago
>is this what a block chain bubble looks like? Maybe, but if it was a "tulip coin" then definitely
DiNovi 9y ago
Being able to distribute the cost of tracking rewards points sounds like a fair and smart use case
dwild 9y ago
I remember reading that iTunes cards can be quite an effective way to do ransomware payment. It seems funny but if it works, why not?
sn9 9y ago
Someone call Neal Stephenson.

IgorPartola 9y ago

The latter point isn't necessarily as crazy as it sounds. I remember there was something about money laundering through Second Life currency. In the end, does it really matter how you do it, if it works? Your first point is a little funny, until you remember all those people who also kept saying that BTC isn't the only thing and replacing fiat currency isn't the only goal. I don't see a problem with it, other than being somewhat wasteful.

colechristensen 9y ago
Tide laundry detergent is a popular black market currency http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/ http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/
- nwatson 9y ago
  Prisoners use >> cans of mackerel << as currency: https://www.wired.com/2011/01/st_prisoncurrencies/ https://www.wired.com/2011/01/st_prisoncurrencies/ .
ryanlol 9y ago
>I remember there was something about money laundering through Second Life currency. I don't think this was ever actually a thing, some people just speculated about the possibility.
- mustacheemperor 9y ago
  Both WOW Gold and Second Life "linden dollars" were and are major black market currency tools online. A cursory google search would prove your statement quite false but here's some sources anyway: https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/03/26/bitcoins-not-tax-fairy-dust-second-life-still-a-tax-haven/#2e35de606615 https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/03/26/bitcoin... http://www.wired.co.uk/article/money-laundering-online http://www.wired.co.uk/article/money-laundering-online
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    Neither of those articles contains anything even hinting towards my statement being false. Their contents are merely speculation. I've got a decent amount of experience with this, and I'm certain there's never been any large scale money laundering activity using Linden dollars. The idea is simply ridiculous, the economy isn't large enough to support it.
    - mustacheemperor 9y ago
      Sorry, was the arxiv paper[0] linked in the Wired article not sufficient? I'm not regional expert on this subject myself so if you've got contrary information I'd be interested in reading it. It's my assumption Wow's economy is much larger than SL's, and I'd also assume that in aggregate these different digital economies are more than large enough to hide transactions. That's speculation on my own part, though, and if you have any actual evidence other than claiming "decent experience" I'm interested. I'm not sure what the definition of "large scale money laundering" is in this situation. [0][https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1310/1310.2368.pdf https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1310/1310.2368.pdf
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        Did you actually look at the paper? The primary sources are videogame cheating forums like Ownedcore, not really where I'd go for money laundering advice. The posts seem to be mostly related to laundering stolen ingame money, not funds acquired elsewhere. There's also one entirely speculative post (again from a videogame cheating forum) proposing a completely unrealistic, and ridiculously expensive approach to money laundering by buying and reselling videogame money. The paper seems to have been written by mostly clueless people with little understanding of these communities or money laundering.
lgierth 9y ago
Are whoppers a scarce resource?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- IgorPartola 9y ago
  Do they have to be?
- pjmorris 9y ago
  Scarcer than US dollars.
  - B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago
    The Heinlein prediction of Crazy Years and "barter-only hamburgers" is a bit later to come around than originally projected, but the curve does not seem totally wrong ...

efnx 9y ago

Sounds Gibsonesque (or Stephensonesque).

mortenjorck 9y ago
No kidding. I can't decide whether this is more techno-culturally weird in the Gibsonian way, or more iconoclastically post-modern in the Stephensonian way.
- Apocryphon 9y ago
  What would be the Sterlingesque way?

rando444 9y ago

It's questionable whether the ledger is even distributed. I read everything I could find on the platform though and couldn't find anything but marketing speak. https://wavesplatform.com/ https://wavesplatform.com/ They do link to their github, but that's a bit deeper dive than I have interest for at the moment.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago
Waves is a proof of stake platform, there are several large pools staking. I mean maybe thats marketing speak if you don't understand it. The cool thing about waves is that its fun, and that you can lease to people that want to be pools and earn fun stuff. The questionable thing is if the leasing has resulted (or will result) in consolidation making it not distributed.
- tragomaskhalos 9y ago
  Proof of steak ? (I'll get my coat)
  - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
    I mean if you found a relevant context to say it then you might have a good pun. People have made it before.
schnevets 9y ago
It reminds me of those stories from the 90s bubble, when companies would just add ".com" to their name to inflate their value. Are Russians really curious enough about blockchains for this to be effective, or did Burger King's marketing team just decide a $10,000 bitcoin proof-of-concept is more effective than spending an equal amount on traditional advertising?
- abledon 9y ago
  If it cost them 10,000$. I bet they'll make it back just on the devs/geeks who want to get in on the silliness of it, id say minimum 2000 devs in Russia would buy a whopper to get some whoppercoin, 2000x5$ = 10,000. Make money back and get exposure haha

baybal2 9y ago

Watch out for people with bags full of burgers

mcgarnagle 9y ago

Say what you will, at least the whoppercoins are backed by something that has survived the test of time, the whopper.

jandrese 9y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3QRTToTLzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3QRTToTLzI
- JVIDEL 9y ago
  You cut the best part
harveywi 9y ago
Garnishing whopper wages only makes them more delicious.
test6554 9y ago
Whopper coins being tied to whoppers is a one-way street. You can't just take some two week old whoppers to an ATM and feed the bread and patty into the machine to get whopper coins.
- cgb223 9y ago
  Idk that video of the Big Mac that never decomposed after being left out for months shows some compelling evedence in the other direction...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- lemonycracket 9y ago
  Wtf you talking about. BK will allow you to redeem for Whopper's at their ATM/mobile Kiosk. The level of ignorance is juvenile. Would you rather implement, at non trivial expense, your own loyalty points. Or copy paste 50 lines of Solidity and call it a day and automatically be compatible with all ERC20 wallets?

rootsudo 9y ago

What better way to learn Blockchain then through a silly marketing campaign using someone elses money. The devs get to put down on their resume "real" block chain experience. I write this, because, if you look up block chain on indeed, you'll see some insane requirements. 5 years+ "blockchain experience." Ok, yeah, that's going to be real common. Five years ago most people weren't aware of block chain. Now, distributed database, "maybe."

golergka 9y ago
You'll see insane requirements everywhere. The real insanity is taking these requirements seriously.
ajmurmann 9y ago
You see this for every skill though. I remember jobs requiring 5 years of Rails experience before Rails was that old and DHH commenting somewhere that he wouldn't qualify.
- droidist2 9y ago
  Do they do that because they don't actually want to fill the job?

gexla 9y ago

Russian Intelligence: You're quite skinny for a guy who eats so many whoppers. Who are you working for?

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
Russian Government.
droidist2 9y ago
He goes by the name Special Sauce. That's all I know.

gaius 9y ago

This is the tech equivalent of using a bazooka to address an ant problem. BK is a very sophisticated logistics operation - they probably employ some smart techs. This is just them having some fun, and why not?

abledon 9y ago
I like looking at the shitload of server racks and cables in the side room of the Burger King joint in my mall, it's like they have a cyborg or some monster plugged into a liquid nutrient bath back there. Yum, gonna order some chicken fries.

vanderZwan 9y ago

Between this and that famous KFC pop-up[0], I'm starting to think that fast food restaurants are at the forefront of abusing new technology for dumb purposes. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/6mevf4/kfc_germany_requires_6_clicks/ https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/6mevf4/kfc_g...

tmerse 9y ago
I bet you will love KFC's newest VR-endeavour [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3PJQ_E7Se0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3PJQ_E7Se0
- vanderZwan 9y ago
  OMG, I thought that was a critical art piece or something, but it's actually really by KFC?! https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sick-vr-nightmare https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sic... https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sick-vr-nightmare https://www.vrroom.buzz/vr-news/games/kfcs-training-game-sic...

VikingCoder 9y ago

...you use a computer to look at pictures of cats. That computer would be the greatest Wonder of the Ancient World, if it could be transported back in time, and powered (solar?) The computational power we all waste each day is almost beyond comprehension. I read a novel where it was illegal to not spend your spare CPU cycles modelling hurricanes.

clamprecht 9y ago

I recently signed up for a Starbucks Rewards card in Argentina. I had to state that I was not a "Politically Exposed Person (PEP)", and I had to provide my full name, passport number, date of birth, profession, civil status (married, divorced, widowed, single), and street address. Do they think I'm going to launder money by buying lattes? https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/register https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/register

nandhp 9y ago
US Starbucks Cards can be used in certain other countries[1], and international money transfer would be a plausible excuse for requiring such information. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for Argentine Starbucks cards[2]. [1] "Most Starbucks, Evolution Fresh and Teavana stores in North America including Puerto Rico accept your Starbucks Card. Certain Starbucks-branded locations may not permit you to use the Starbucks Card for payment, including some airport, grocery and bookstore locations, or stores in Guam and others located outside continental North America." https://www.starbucks.com/about-us/company-information/online-policies/terms-of-use/card https://www.starbucks.com/about-us/company-information/onlin... [2] "La Starbucks Card activada en Argentina no podrá ser utilizada en tiendas Starbucks ubicadas fuera de Argentina. La Starbucks Card activada fuera de Argentina no será válida en Argentina.", which Google translates as "The Starbucks Card activated in Argentina can not be used in Starbucks stores located outside Argentina. The Starbucks Card activated outside Argentina will not be valid in Argentina." https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/tos/card https://starbucksrewards.com.ar/tos/card
sedachv 9y ago
> Do they think I'm going to launder money by buying lattes? That is exactly what happens. Prepaid debit cards and gift cards were and maybe still are both major tools for cross-border money laundering of drug proceeds because they have not been treated with the same scrutiny by customs and border guards as cash. With gift cards, you would buy them in one country, take them to another (typically US), and sell them (on Craigslist, eBay, etc) for $0.98 on the dollar. So it is a very inexpensive and low risk way of international money laundering. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-regulations-moneylaundering-insig-idUSKCN10L0FC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-regulations-moneylaun...

cm2187 9y ago

My guess is that you are more likely to see a bitcoin-rich Russian teenage hacker than a Colombian drug lord. I think it's smart to try to get a cut of the ransomware business.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

> First, the idea of running a distributed ledger to keep track of burger points. This is the tech equivalent of using a bazooka to address an ant problem. They aren't running it. They are using the Waves platform, which has very easy 1-click asset creation. Waves is also Proof of Stake, so there's no mining involved. This gives the transparency benefits and distribution benefits, without any of the overhead. Regarding distribution, waves platform has a culture of airdrops in it. I find Waves fun. Between leasing, the decentralized exchanges, the airdrops, the dividends, and finding out about the assets that got airdropped or dividended to you, I find myself in the app quite often unintentionally. The airdropped assets are mostly worthless, but the descriptions of the assets are interesting. I would say the fun aspect is different than other cryptocurrencies. Its like finding random stuff in Skyrim, keeps me coming back. For reference, I buy Waves and purchase Waves Community Tokens (WCT) on the decentralized exchange. Most airdrops go to WCT holders, they just take a record of the blockchain and send to all address with WCT balances. I lease my remaining Waves to the pools FountainPerpetua and WavesGo. There are plenty of other pools to lease to. Pools give payments in the form of Waves, because thats what they earn, but they also have the option of giving payments in other assets too, they just need to remain competitive. So I typically earn Waves, Waves Community Tokens and Miners Rewards tokens. The WavesGo pool gives WavesGo tokens which are actual shares and actual securities. WavesGo pools distributes more of its own earnings to all WavesGo holders. You can buy and sell more WavesGo shares on the decentralized exchange.

moxious 9y ago
Thanks for this comment -- it was very high quality and led me to spend 2 hours reading about this stuff. It looks pretty cool and I'm going to give it a shot. Reading about the fountains and several other community aspects really does make this seem unique and fun

norea-armozel 9y ago

Or maybe we're seeing the silliest version of Snowcrash come to life.

Apocryphon 9y ago

Haven't people been laundering money via in-game virtual items in different MMO games before? This is just another seemingly "frivolous" channel that humans can do unofficial exchange in.

c3534l 9y ago

Organized crime has used xbox multiplayer to communicate with each other to evade wiretaps[0], criminals have used tide as a currency[1], why not Burger King, too? [0] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2470702/cybercrime-hacking/law-enforcement--gangs--terrorists-plot-evil-over-xbox-and-ps3.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2470702/cybercrime-hac... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-are-criminals-stealing-tide-detergent-and-using-it-for-money/254631/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-are...

x220 9y ago
The best form of communication to circumvent surveillance is not Signal, it's some Japanese MMORPG that no one has ever heard of or ever think of monitoring.

JVIDEL 9y ago

>is this what a block chain bubble looks like? Maybe, but if it was a "tulip coin" then definitely

DiNovi 9y ago

Being able to distribute the cost of tracking rewards points sounds like a fair and smart use case

dwild 9y ago

I remember reading that iTunes cards can be quite an effective way to do ransomware payment. It seems funny but if it works, why not?

sn9 9y ago

Someone call Neal Stephenson.