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> the company offers a compelling service for riders, an economically attractive one for drivers (who drive by choice), and makes the cities within which it ope

by bbarn 9y ago

> the company offers a compelling service for riders, an economically attractive one for drivers (who drive by choice), and makes the cities within which it operates better. Incredibly opinionated. It's a pretty disputed claim that more single passenger traffic improves a city.

malandrew 9y ago
Uber at least always shows you both Pool and X trip times and prices at the same time when ordering. This at least gives every X passenger the opportunity to consider a Pool trip first.
- te_chris 9y ago
  Yes but why would you choose it? It's the most awkward experience I've ever had in my life
  - exhilaration 9y ago
    Because sometimes it's close to half the price? Some of us like saving $5 or $10 per ride.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
    In what ways was it awkward?
  - Shorel 9y ago
    Because cars are a bit less wasteful with pool?
  - jonknee 9y ago
    Some people have less money and a higher tolerance of strangers?
  - ch4s3 9y ago
    Despite having a dim view of Uber and Lyft generally, I've had good experiences in Pools. I find that they're a great way to get recommendations for bars/restaurants/events in the area, and you have either a source or destination in common. People are usually either friendly or silent. Not only that, but Pool encourages better transport resource utilization.
icebraining 9y ago
Cheap, reliable on-demand trips make it easier to avoid owning a car at all and use public transport 99% of the time, whereas if you have to buy one anyway, you're more likely to use it even if you could have taken the metro instead, since after sinking the fixed costs, the cost per trip is not that different.
- ch4s3 9y ago
  That isn't how traffic works in theory or practice. Driving, or taking car trips has a high price elasticity. Lowering the cost of a car trip even a litte increases demand a lot. So Uber's subsidy of trips should increase demand a lot, which it does. Additionally the convenience of the app, and not having to find parking, or maintain a car also increase demand. If all of that outweighs the individuals cost of sitting in increased traffic, demand will continue to rise. Because the costs are socialized, they affect people who don't drive or take car trips, i.e. bus trips take longer, transportation spending gets soaked up by road repairs due to extra maintenance costs incurred by increased traffic, etc.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Right, but Uber is not cheaper than owning and using one's own car, so they haven't actually lowered the cost of a car trip, only of a taxi trip. Own cars are not only still much cheaper, as the cost per trip actually goes down as you use it more, making Uber even less attractive as the number of trips increases. It's exactly for people who take very few car trips, like me, since they use mostly public transport, that Uber is actually more attractive than car ownership, since it avoids the fixed costs. As for road repair costs, that's usually paid off from gas taxes, which Uber pays linearly according to their used miles, so it's not "socialized" in any meaningful way.
    - ch4s3 9y ago
      You're missing my point, I'm not talking about Uber vs owning a car. My point is that for people like you who might take public transit, walk, bike, or otherwise not take a taxi Uber lowers the total cost of a car trip, thereby increasing your demand for car trips. Also, while taking 2+ trips per day will eventually cost more, it's cheaper in the short run where people actually make decisions. Furthermore, Ubers like cabs drive around waiting for fares so they create traffic while not providing rides. Similarly with recent cases of Uber driver brigading to drive up surge prices, they also create surges of traffic. Gas taxes only pay for up to 40% of road maintenance and that's in states with the highest gas taxes. The rest of the cost is made up from general funds and transportation budgets. There was a high profile case recently in Maryland where the governor redirected light rail funds to highway maintenance and construction. In fact gas taxes have never fully covered road construction and maintenance costs anywhere in the US, ever.
Tiktaalik 9y ago
Especially since there is data from NYC that shows that Uber is making traffic congestion worse. In general major cities are trying to reduce automobile traffic and are giving more space to pedestrians and cyclists. In the future as cities consider mobility pricing to control congestion and further limit car use, it's quite likely that ride hailing services like Uber will have caps placed on them much like how taxis do now.
- BinaryIdiot 9y ago
  I'm curious, is there data to show if parking demand is dropping with Uber making congestion worse? I mean in my head it makes sense that more people driving would lead to less parking but I don't know if that's true or not. While congestion is not optimal I wonder if parking drops if space can be reclaimed to make other improvements.
  - Tiktaalik 9y ago
    I think there's a lot of interest from cities in reclaiming parking, but it would be giving more space for pedestrians and cyclists. The amount of space for cars would remain the same.
  - mahyarm 9y ago
    A lot of people use uber because parking is horrible at their destination and public transit doesn't work. If uber doesn't exist then they would of drove. How many cars is that one uber car replacing in that case?
- icebraining 9y ago
  Why, do you think Uber drivers will start rioting and setting stuff on fire, like taxi drivers did to get those caps in place? http://untappedcities.com/2015/02/05/today-in-nyc-history-the-taxi-riots-of-1934-start-february-5-1934/ http://untappedcities.com/2015/02/05/today-in-nyc-history-th...
shostack 9y ago
I'm curious how it cuts down on parking. And once autonomous vehicles are mainstream, I think this argument will only solidify.

by bbarn 9y ago

malandrew 9y ago

Uber at least always shows you both Pool and X trip times and prices at the same time when ordering. This at least gives every X passenger the opportunity to consider a Pool trip first.

te_chris 9y ago
Yes but why would you choose it? It's the most awkward experience I've ever had in my life
- exhilaration 9y ago
  Because sometimes it's close to half the price? Some of us like saving $5 or $10 per ride.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  In what ways was it awkward?
- Shorel 9y ago
  Because cars are a bit less wasteful with pool?
- jonknee 9y ago
  Some people have less money and a higher tolerance of strangers?
- ch4s3 9y ago
  Despite having a dim view of Uber and Lyft generally, I've had good experiences in Pools. I find that they're a great way to get recommendations for bars/restaurants/events in the area, and you have either a source or destination in common. People are usually either friendly or silent. Not only that, but Pool encourages better transport resource utilization.

icebraining 9y ago

Cheap, reliable on-demand trips make it easier to avoid owning a car at all and use public transport 99% of the time, whereas if you have to buy one anyway, you're more likely to use it even if you could have taken the metro instead, since after sinking the fixed costs, the cost per trip is not that different.

ch4s3 9y ago
That isn't how traffic works in theory or practice. Driving, or taking car trips has a high price elasticity. Lowering the cost of a car trip even a litte increases demand a lot. So Uber's subsidy of trips should increase demand a lot, which it does. Additionally the convenience of the app, and not having to find parking, or maintain a car also increase demand. If all of that outweighs the individuals cost of sitting in increased traffic, demand will continue to rise. Because the costs are socialized, they affect people who don't drive or take car trips, i.e. bus trips take longer, transportation spending gets soaked up by road repairs due to extra maintenance costs incurred by increased traffic, etc.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Right, but Uber is not cheaper than owning and using one's own car, so they haven't actually lowered the cost of a car trip, only of a taxi trip. Own cars are not only still much cheaper, as the cost per trip actually goes down as you use it more, making Uber even less attractive as the number of trips increases. It's exactly for people who take very few car trips, like me, since they use mostly public transport, that Uber is actually more attractive than car ownership, since it avoids the fixed costs. As for road repair costs, that's usually paid off from gas taxes, which Uber pays linearly according to their used miles, so it's not "socialized" in any meaningful way.
  - ch4s3 9y ago
    You're missing my point, I'm not talking about Uber vs owning a car. My point is that for people like you who might take public transit, walk, bike, or otherwise not take a taxi Uber lowers the total cost of a car trip, thereby increasing your demand for car trips. Also, while taking 2+ trips per day will eventually cost more, it's cheaper in the short run where people actually make decisions. Furthermore, Ubers like cabs drive around waiting for fares so they create traffic while not providing rides. Similarly with recent cases of Uber driver brigading to drive up surge prices, they also create surges of traffic. Gas taxes only pay for up to 40% of road maintenance and that's in states with the highest gas taxes. The rest of the cost is made up from general funds and transportation budgets. There was a high profile case recently in Maryland where the governor redirected light rail funds to highway maintenance and construction. In fact gas taxes have never fully covered road construction and maintenance costs anywhere in the US, ever.

Tiktaalik 9y ago

Especially since there is data from NYC that shows that Uber is making traffic congestion worse. In general major cities are trying to reduce automobile traffic and are giving more space to pedestrians and cyclists. In the future as cities consider mobility pricing to control congestion and further limit car use, it's quite likely that ride hailing services like Uber will have caps placed on them much like how taxis do now.

BinaryIdiot 9y ago
I'm curious, is there data to show if parking demand is dropping with Uber making congestion worse? I mean in my head it makes sense that more people driving would lead to less parking but I don't know if that's true or not. While congestion is not optimal I wonder if parking drops if space can be reclaimed to make other improvements.
- Tiktaalik 9y ago
  I think there's a lot of interest from cities in reclaiming parking, but it would be giving more space for pedestrians and cyclists. The amount of space for cars would remain the same.
- mahyarm 9y ago
  A lot of people use uber because parking is horrible at their destination and public transit doesn't work. If uber doesn't exist then they would of drove. How many cars is that one uber car replacing in that case?
icebraining 9y ago
Why, do you think Uber drivers will start rioting and setting stuff on fire, like taxi drivers did to get those caps in place? http://untappedcities.com/2015/02/05/today-in-nyc-history-the-taxi-riots-of-1934-start-february-5-1934/ http://untappedcities.com/2015/02/05/today-in-nyc-history-th...

shostack 9y ago

I'm curious how it cuts down on parking. And once autonomous vehicles are mainstream, I think this argument will only solidify.