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Yes. You simply swap the battery out for one that is already charged. The model works where the person owns the car but effectively leases the battery, so you

Yes. You simply swap the battery out for one that is already charged. The model works where the person owns the car but effectively leases the battery, so your fee at the station includes the battery "rental" and the delta in its charge. http://www.betterplace.com/ http://www.betterplace.com/

protomyth 16y ago
I can swap the batteries in under the amount of time it would take me to fill a tank of gas (around 8 minutes avg)?
- Groxx 16y ago
  If it's made to be swapped out? Yes. Grab handle & pull. Drop in replacement.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Problem: the batteries on a Tesla Roadster weigh about 400 lb. Have fun lifting that! If you want a battery that one man (or more to the point, one woman) can lift, you'll have to settle for a drastically reduced range. Alternatively, you could have twenty easily-removed 20 lb batteries to swap out. It'd still be a bit of a workout, and beyond the capabilities of your average grandmother.
    - Groxx 16y ago
      True, I wasn't considering the added amount of batteries in electric cars. But at that point you bring in the machinery, maybe loading from the bottom of the car, for precisely the for-people-who-can't reason. Someone would win a lawsuit, and they couldn't allow the average person to do it any more.
    - alabut 16y ago
      They're not meant to be replaced by hand - it's an automated process that swaps the batteries after you pull the car into the proper position, sort of like pulling into a car wash.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        Hmmm, by the point at which you're hot-swapping a 400 lb battery pack using a robot, maybe it'd be better to just hot-swap the entire car and be done with it? You could buy an electric car subscription, like Zipcar except you get to (or rather, must) keep the car at your own place, and swap it out whenever the battery gets low.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        alabut 16y ago
        Easier to stock up on extra batteries at a recharge station, harder to stock up on extra cars. I'm personally thinking of the one use case that keeps me from buying an EV car - driving from SF to LA to see in-laws. And that's only if my wife and I were to use the EV as our only car, which it doesn't need to be if we add it on as a second car in addition to our current p.o.s. Civic. Or if we pony up for car rentals instead. So yeah, I'm actually considering getting an electric car in the next year. It's possible. I'm guessing that's exactly how EVs will start to take off next year, as second cars and viable replacements for the daily commute.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
      Apparently you're not an engineer! Here's my proposed solution based on current technology and about 10 seconds thinking about the problem: - Battery is in an externally accessed compartment mounted on a sled with a pair of clips. - Driver opens compartment door and backs into "battery loading bay" at gas station. - Clips engage matching latches that sense battery and extract it from car, then rotates a new, charged one in place and loads it. - Driver pays and drives off. None of this is more complicated than filling up your car with gas and the mechanisms are cheap and easy to build.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        Hey, I never said there weren't solutions, I just wanted to point out the problem in the parent's "pick it up by the handle" approach.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    Other than weight and liability (mentioned in other replies), infrastructure and logistics issue with swapping make it a no go in my mind. Local storage and deciding how many "extra" battery sets I need to keep at the station is going to be a pain. This might be mitigated by multiple stations in the city, but it will be a killer in rural areas. Having to wait for a pack to charge for multiple hours because they don't have a charged pack is going to be a killer. Charging stations are going to be a simpler upgrade compared to the infrastructure costs of adding areas for swapping. Never mind the added staff to facilitate the swaps.
    - aaronblohowiak 16y ago
      It is already happening. They are figuring out the logistics: http://www.betterplace.com/the-solution-switch-stations http://www.betterplace.com/the-solution-switch-stations Most of the pollution from rural areas comes from agriculture and livestock. The greenhouse gasses from livestock dwarf all of transportation! Anyway, focusing on urban areas to get things rolling will help the migration and hopefully battery tech will continue to improve. Note also that the cars can be recharged from the wall if needbe.
      - protomyth 16y ago
        That doesn't really solve the logistical problem of having to keep an inventory and knowing what the inventory needs to be. As to agriculture, well - you need to eat....
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        eru 16y ago
        They already have to keep an inventory of gas (and lots of other staff in other sectors). Managing inventory is a well understood problem.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
      This problem isn't substantially different than deciding how much gasoline/diesel to keep in the storage tanks at a rural gas station now. Fuel degrades quickly. And don't assume added staff. Anyone thinking about this problem seriously will build in automation from the beginning. It doesn't take much energy to lift a 400lb battery.
- aaronblohowiak 16y ago
  It takes one minute and thirteen seconds. If you look at the video from the link I sent you, then you can watch the whole process.
  - alabut 16y ago
    The video is in the lower right, titled "The Tokyo Electric Taxi Project begins" and it's pretty impressive. Apparently cabs in Tokyo are 2% of the car population but produce 20% of the pollution, so they're attacking a big problem.

protomyth 16y ago

I can swap the batteries in under the amount of time it would take me to fill a tank of gas (around 8 minutes avg)?

Groxx 16y ago
If it's made to be swapped out? Yes. Grab handle & pull. Drop in replacement.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Problem: the batteries on a Tesla Roadster weigh about 400 lb. Have fun lifting that! If you want a battery that one man (or more to the point, one woman) can lift, you'll have to settle for a drastically reduced range. Alternatively, you could have twenty easily-removed 20 lb batteries to swap out. It'd still be a bit of a workout, and beyond the capabilities of your average grandmother.
  - Groxx 16y ago
    True, I wasn't considering the added amount of batteries in electric cars. But at that point you bring in the machinery, maybe loading from the bottom of the car, for precisely the for-people-who-can't reason. Someone would win a lawsuit, and they couldn't allow the average person to do it any more.
  - alabut 16y ago
    They're not meant to be replaced by hand - it's an automated process that swaps the batteries after you pull the car into the proper position, sort of like pulling into a car wash.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      Hmmm, by the point at which you're hot-swapping a 400 lb battery pack using a robot, maybe it'd be better to just hot-swap the entire car and be done with it? You could buy an electric car subscription, like Zipcar except you get to (or rather, must) keep the car at your own place, and swap it out whenever the battery gets low.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - alabut 16y ago
        Easier to stock up on extra batteries at a recharge station, harder to stock up on extra cars. I'm personally thinking of the one use case that keeps me from buying an EV car - driving from SF to LA to see in-laws. And that's only if my wife and I were to use the EV as our only car, which it doesn't need to be if we add it on as a second car in addition to our current p.o.s. Civic. Or if we pony up for car rentals instead. So yeah, I'm actually considering getting an electric car in the next year. It's possible. I'm guessing that's exactly how EVs will start to take off next year, as second cars and viable replacements for the daily commute.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
    Apparently you're not an engineer! Here's my proposed solution based on current technology and about 10 seconds thinking about the problem: - Battery is in an externally accessed compartment mounted on a sled with a pair of clips. - Driver opens compartment door and backs into "battery loading bay" at gas station. - Clips engage matching latches that sense battery and extract it from car, then rotates a new, charged one in place and loads it. - Driver pays and drives off. None of this is more complicated than filling up your car with gas and the mechanisms are cheap and easy to build.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      Hey, I never said there weren't solutions, I just wanted to point out the problem in the parent's "pick it up by the handle" approach.
- protomyth 16y ago
  Other than weight and liability (mentioned in other replies), infrastructure and logistics issue with swapping make it a no go in my mind. Local storage and deciding how many "extra" battery sets I need to keep at the station is going to be a pain. This might be mitigated by multiple stations in the city, but it will be a killer in rural areas. Having to wait for a pack to charge for multiple hours because they don't have a charged pack is going to be a killer. Charging stations are going to be a simpler upgrade compared to the infrastructure costs of adding areas for swapping. Never mind the added staff to facilitate the swaps.
  - aaronblohowiak 16y ago
    It is already happening. They are figuring out the logistics: http://www.betterplace.com/the-solution-switch-stations http://www.betterplace.com/the-solution-switch-stations Most of the pollution from rural areas comes from agriculture and livestock. The greenhouse gasses from livestock dwarf all of transportation! Anyway, focusing on urban areas to get things rolling will help the migration and hopefully battery tech will continue to improve. Note also that the cars can be recharged from the wall if needbe.
    - protomyth 16y ago
      That doesn't really solve the logistical problem of having to keep an inventory and knowing what the inventory needs to be. As to agriculture, well - you need to eat....
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - eru 16y ago
        They already have to keep an inventory of gas (and lots of other staff in other sectors). Managing inventory is a well understood problem.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
    This problem isn't substantially different than deciding how much gasoline/diesel to keep in the storage tanks at a rural gas station now. Fuel degrades quickly. And don't assume added staff. Anyone thinking about this problem seriously will build in automation from the beginning. It doesn't take much energy to lift a 400lb battery.
aaronblohowiak 16y ago
It takes one minute and thirteen seconds. If you look at the video from the link I sent you, then you can watch the whole process.
- alabut 16y ago
  The video is in the lower right, titled "The Tokyo Electric Taxi Project begins" and it's pretty impressive. Apparently cabs in Tokyo are 2% of the car population but produce 20% of the pollution, so they're attacking a big problem.