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I'm not going to agree that both sides are the same. There's a serious problem with conservatives demonizing and even dehumanizing those who don't follow their

I'm not going to agree that both sides are the same. There's a serious problem with conservatives demonizing and even dehumanizing those who don't follow their ideology, which IMHO lays the foundation for current conservative leaders. In the U.S. and Europe you can't find significant liberal leaders nearly as extreme and polarizing as many major conservative figures, some of whom are heads of state, nor liberal equivalents for white supremacy and extreme nationalism that are anywhere close to having the support to win power. The left-wing equivalent in the past would have been Communists, but they are very weak - there is no chance for a Communist to win office in any major country; even China's Communists are authoritarian capitalists who have retained the old brand name.

mc32 9y ago
>nor liberal equivalents for white supremacy and extreme nationalism that are anywhere close to having the support to win power Win power? I hope not. Who would want any of those two choices. As for implied hate, well... I think Antifa is proving Jung's enantiodromia true: http://i.imgur.com/h1gpoI1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/h1gpoI1.jpg >even China's Communists are authoritarian capitalists who have retained the old brand name. That one is a little more nuanced than you present. They are communists except for some big areas of the economic system. However, there are many areas where they have not departed. How the party is run, how the country is organized and governed, how the people are controlled, 5-year plans, etc.
- camillomiller 9y ago
  So basically they're Stalinists, which is very different from "true" Marxian communism (even better: it's a modern version of real socialism).
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > I think Antifa is proving Do you have any evidence linking those accounts to Antifa? Or any indication that they're Antifa? I might be missing it but I can't see anything in that image which justifies you linking it to Antifa...
- forapurpose 9y ago
  > Win power? I hope not. Who would want any of those two choices I agree. I'm against both. My point is that there is no threat of that from the left right now, but perhaps the largest threat from the right since WWII. Antifa has no chance of gaining political power anywhere much less having advocates in the White House and other national capitals. > >even China's Communists are authoritarian capitalists who have retained the old brand name. > That one is a little more nuanced than you present. They are communists except for some big areas of the economic system. However, there are many areas where they have not departed. How the party is run, how the country is organized and governed, how the people are controlled, 5-year plans, etc. I don't know if I agree. They remain authoritarians (maybe becoming totalitarians) in those regards; they use the same structures that were used by Communists when they were ascendant in China and worldwide; but I'm not sure what is particularly Communist about all of that in the political ideological sense. I do know that Xi was reviving some of the ideological language, but that seemed more like a tool of obedience than something anyone took seriously. Capitalist authoritarians took over the Communist machine and decided it was easier to use the legacy tech. But maybe you know something I don't ...
chrisco255 9y ago
Dehumanization is equally present on the left. The left is currently redefining the word Nazi to be equivalent to conservative in order to gain moral high ground. It's a big problem on both sides of the aisle and if you don't see it, you're drinking Kool aid.
- the6threplicant 9y ago
  Except those on the right are members of Congress and the President himself while those on the left are fringe groups and internet comments. See the difference?
  - chrisco255 9y ago
    No. That is a temporary arrangement that will inevitably shift back into the left's favor.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  The current president refused to speak against swastika-waving literal Nazis. The left certainly has problems, but it's not accurate to say they're just as bad.
- sangnoir 9y ago
  > The left is currently redefining the word Nazi to be equivalent to conservative in order to gain moral high ground. The scenarios I've seen people called Nazis, it was a matter of calling a spade a spade. What would you call a "conservative" who has swastika tattoos, a propensity to shout "hail victory" and re-enacting Nazi torch ceremonies? If you consider these folk the standard-bearers for conservatives, I think this says more of you than the people calling Nazis by their name. You are being disingenuous if you are suggesting that the Nazi label is being applied to anything more than the (seeming ascendant) far right fringe.
  - mc32 9y ago
    Those aren't the only people being labeled. Plain Trump supporters get called that. Black people ho support Trump or Latinos supporting trump's immigration policies are getting lumped into the same group. It's really unfortunate because it's as if anyone who doesn't agree with their world view is a nazi. It's unfortunate because people in the middle, who will now get skewered for being fence sitters will be more likely to vote against the antifa types who are trying really hard to antagonize.
j4kp07 9y ago
> There's a serious problem with conservatives demonizing and even dehumanizing those who don't follow their ideology This is the best example of Psychological Projection that I have seen all week.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  A fair point; I should have written that more carefully. But if Amy says, "Bob is a hypocrite and you can't trust anything he says", and Bob responds, "Amy is demonizing me" - Amy and Bob are not equally guilty of demonization. Perhaps I should have written: There's a serious problem that large numbers of conservative leaders and elite engage in demonization and dehumanization of others, to the point where it has become normalized, acceptable political discourse for them.

mc32 9y ago

>nor liberal equivalents for white supremacy and extreme nationalism that are anywhere close to having the support to win power Win power? I hope not. Who would want any of those two choices. As for implied hate, well... I think Antifa is proving Jung's enantiodromia true: http://i.imgur.com/h1gpoI1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/h1gpoI1.jpg >even China's Communists are authoritarian capitalists who have retained the old brand name. That one is a little more nuanced than you present. They are communists except for some big areas of the economic system. However, there are many areas where they have not departed. How the party is run, how the country is organized and governed, how the people are controlled, 5-year plans, etc.

camillomiller 9y ago
So basically they're Stalinists, which is very different from "true" Marxian communism (even better: it's a modern version of real socialism).
zimpenfish 9y ago
> I think Antifa is proving Do you have any evidence linking those accounts to Antifa? Or any indication that they're Antifa? I might be missing it but I can't see anything in that image which justifies you linking it to Antifa...
forapurpose 9y ago
> Win power? I hope not. Who would want any of those two choices I agree. I'm against both. My point is that there is no threat of that from the left right now, but perhaps the largest threat from the right since WWII. Antifa has no chance of gaining political power anywhere much less having advocates in the White House and other national capitals. > >even China's Communists are authoritarian capitalists who have retained the old brand name. > That one is a little more nuanced than you present. They are communists except for some big areas of the economic system. However, there are many areas where they have not departed. How the party is run, how the country is organized and governed, how the people are controlled, 5-year plans, etc. I don't know if I agree. They remain authoritarians (maybe becoming totalitarians) in those regards; they use the same structures that were used by Communists when they were ascendant in China and worldwide; but I'm not sure what is particularly Communist about all of that in the political ideological sense. I do know that Xi was reviving some of the ideological language, but that seemed more like a tool of obedience than something anyone took seriously. Capitalist authoritarians took over the Communist machine and decided it was easier to use the legacy tech. But maybe you know something I don't ...

chrisco255 9y ago

Dehumanization is equally present on the left. The left is currently redefining the word Nazi to be equivalent to conservative in order to gain moral high ground. It's a big problem on both sides of the aisle and if you don't see it, you're drinking Kool aid.

the6threplicant 9y ago
Except those on the right are members of Congress and the President himself while those on the left are fringe groups and internet comments. See the difference?
- chrisco255 9y ago
  No. That is a temporary arrangement that will inevitably shift back into the left's favor.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
The current president refused to speak against swastika-waving literal Nazis. The left certainly has problems, but it's not accurate to say they're just as bad.
sangnoir 9y ago
> The left is currently redefining the word Nazi to be equivalent to conservative in order to gain moral high ground. The scenarios I've seen people called Nazis, it was a matter of calling a spade a spade. What would you call a "conservative" who has swastika tattoos, a propensity to shout "hail victory" and re-enacting Nazi torch ceremonies? If you consider these folk the standard-bearers for conservatives, I think this says more of you than the people calling Nazis by their name. You are being disingenuous if you are suggesting that the Nazi label is being applied to anything more than the (seeming ascendant) far right fringe.
- mc32 9y ago
  Those aren't the only people being labeled. Plain Trump supporters get called that. Black people ho support Trump or Latinos supporting trump's immigration policies are getting lumped into the same group. It's really unfortunate because it's as if anyone who doesn't agree with their world view is a nazi. It's unfortunate because people in the middle, who will now get skewered for being fence sitters will be more likely to vote against the antifa types who are trying really hard to antagonize.

j4kp07 9y ago

> There's a serious problem with conservatives demonizing and even dehumanizing those who don't follow their ideology This is the best example of Psychological Projection that I have seen all week.

forapurpose 9y ago
A fair point; I should have written that more carefully. But if Amy says, "Bob is a hypocrite and you can't trust anything he says", and Bob responds, "Amy is demonizing me" - Amy and Bob are not equally guilty of demonization. Perhaps I should have written: There's a serious problem that large numbers of conservative leaders and elite engage in demonization and dehumanization of others, to the point where it has become normalized, acceptable political discourse for them.