7 ms·

Umm... it's a support board for people who have bought a product, not a soapbox to whine on. It's one thing to have negative threads about how their product the

by ROFISH 16y ago

Umm... it's a support board for people who have bought a product, not a soapbox to whine on. It's one thing to have negative threads about how their product they bought doesn't work, it's another when people who haven't bought one complain. (And/or a continuation of the same subject that needs to be merged into the parent thread.) EDIT: I should edit quickly to say that what I mean is that support boards specifically for support are for one purpose: support. Complaints need to go in the complaint box or the FCC or something.

illumin8 16y ago
For some reason Apple spawns such hatred within the industry that fans of other products will actively create accounts and start trolling on their message boards. I don't go trolling on Blackberry forums about how their devices require reboots regularly, or Android forums about the Evo4G battery life issues, so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so?
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  > so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so? Because Apple's products impact so much of industry, that even if you don't use their products, their products impact your life. For example, just because you might not use a Microsoft product doesn't mean you aren't affected by Microsoft's choices. That's at least one of the reasons.
  - illumin8 16y ago
    I'm not buying this - how does an iPhone 4 antenna issue affect someone that didn't even buy one? Are you being harmed if someone you call gets a dropped call because they held their iPhone 4 in the wrong way?
    - napierzaza 16y ago
      Uh oh, do you think this means that people who have RECEIVED phone calls from iPhone 4s will be in on the class action? Great.
    - jasonlotito 16y ago
      Sorry. I was speaking generally, not specifically, in regards to why people who don't own Apple products react to them the way they do, or at least one reason. I was addressing the specific question in a general sense.
  - napierzaza 16y ago
    So your concern is that Android and MS will start creating dubious antenna designs? Sheik, what a bunch of copycats. I think Apple's stance, that anyone who isn't satisfied with the iPhone 4 can return it within 30 days, is the right way to go. They said it before ANYONE had their phone for more than 30 days. Instead the people who weren't satisfied filed a class action lawsuit against Apple for making a "flawed" product. Can you tell me again why Apple OWES you a product that is perfectly free of defects? To the point of you being able to purchase that product and suing them over it instead of just getting a simple refund? This is as if they walked into the store, purchased the phone and yelled (across the internet) "this is a crappy phone, don't give me my money back, get me my lawyer". They then walked out of the store, and proceeded to use that phone for months while the trial went through its paces. Likely those months of horrible reception will only add to the charges they will put against the iPhone. Also, could people direct this feeling elsewhere, where it is more meaningful and productive?
    - lwhi 16y ago
      Phones are sold with airtime contracts - refunds are usually difficult to obtain.
    - jasonlotito 16y ago
      Sorry. I was speaking generally, not specifically, in regards to why people who don't own Apple products react to them the way they do, or at least one reason. I was addressing the specific question in a general sense. I will add this, however. When you purchase Apple products, you are beholden to them. They have a certain standard they need to live up to. If I am dissatisfied with a Dell, I have options with HP, or Lenovo, etc. If I'm not happy with Apple, I'm stuck. I have no other option for a Mac.
- Batsu 16y ago
  It's an issue of passion, I think. Compare Apple fans to that of the XBox or PS3. For some horrible reason, people will defend to the bitter end their console of choice. Nothing is gained or lost in these arguments, the same arguments are constantly thrown out, and quite frankly all the facts are widely available (system specs, regular issues like the RROD or hour-long installs) but no one cares. Everyone argues an opinion, and because this is the internet, quickly devolve a discussion to a flame war... I mean, really, how many Mac users have had serious issues with a one button mouse in the past decade?
  - dieterrams 16y ago
    The funny thing is, I don't actually see this sort of behavior from Apple fans. There isn't that underlying insecurity that causes kids who can't afford multiple consoles to get into fanboy wars. We're generally happy enough with our choices that we don't feel the need to constantly attack people who chose differently. We often do explain why we think Apple products are better, but that's largely because we can't believe how competitors keep getting it wrong, not because we're trying to calm inner anxieties about having made the wrong choice. (It still amazes me how bad the interface design on MP3 players were years after the iPod took over the market.) The problem is that there are now tons of anti-Apple trolls hanging out on the Internet, a lot of whom are Android users who apparently feel the need to attack iPhone users with every spare moment. (Naturally, we defend ourselves.) What guts me is seeing this juvenile behavior on Hacker freaking News. This is by far one of the best online communities I've ever seen, but the anti-Apple trolling has definitely taken it down a notch.
    - illumin8 16y ago
      I just got downvoted (and upvoted) for pointing this out in my grandparent comment. The anti-Apple force is strong with these ones...
    - jarek 16y ago
      > The funny thing is, I don't actually see this sort of behavior from Apple fans. > We're generally happy enough with our choices I realize this is anecdote vs anecdote, but I see plenty of it. Where do you usually hang out on the internet?
- jstrate 16y ago
  For some reason Apple spawns the opposite of such hatred. Zealous apple fans stand in lines for days to purchase products, I think some of the hatred is directed at that behavior. Back on topic though, some people just haven't drank the kool-aid and want to discuss problems in a support forum. I don't see this forum moderation as an issue, as it seems only disruptive threads that didn't address problems were deleted.
  - CaptainZapp 16y ago
    "I think some of the hatred is directed at that behavior." Those would have to be really sad folks. Why should anyone hate somebody for standing in-line for days to purchase an, in my opinion, overpriced gadget. I think more to the point is that Apple fanatics defend anything that Apple pulls off. I could come up with a multitude of examples, but my favorite is the finder bug, that when you moved a file to a different volume this may have resulted in complete loss of the file (something Unix figured out, like, 30 years ago). (http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/movebug.html http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/movebug.html) This is a bug, bugs happen and they can (and usually are fixed). But you had a bunch of rabid Apple fanatics who poisoned just about every discussion by trying to defend something undefensible. It's the same reason why you can't have reasonable discussions with members of a cult. What the dear leader says is THE TRUTH and everybody else is out there to get us, infiltrate us and destroy us. I may be modded to hell and then some for this comment, but that's really how I see it and it's annoying behaviour.
- jarek 16y ago
  Not to give such behaviour a carte blanche, which it doesn't deserve, but are you really surprised after some of the stuff Apple and their fans dish out? Every time an Apple fan mentions Windows crashing, every time someone says he's glad he uses a Mac after a Windows virus invariably activated by user stupidity pops up, every time a cringeworthy Mac vs PC ad (that's almost all of them, BTW) airs/aired, an anti-Apple troll is created. It's not cool, but you can't be surprised it happens. By the way, before yesterday, the last time I pulled the battery out of my ancient Blackberry 8100 (used daily) was on June 9... to swap a SIM card.
blhack 16y ago
Well, if it's a support board, wouldn't that make this even more salient? As far as I've heard, apple doesn't even really want to acknowledge that there is a problem. Lots of times when I'm looking for support, part of what I'm looking for is if other people are having the same problem. Linking an article detailing specifically why the problem you're having exists is very helpful when the company that built your defective phone doesn't want to help.
- ROFISH 16y ago
  Except that there's plenty of discussion about this on Apple's boards. This looks to be a case of deleting a bunch of "me too" topics. As a board admin myself, I like to make sure things are on topic and free of trolls. This Apple antenna thing is like a magnet for rabid pro-Android fans gloating, rabid anti-Apple haters schadenfreude, Internet trolls who do it for the lulz, and the poor people who actually have an issue. I really feel for the poor board moderators who have to sort between the four.
  - blhack 16y ago
    I'm having trouble understanding. Is it okay for people to talk about the issue, and to reference an article talking about how, no, it really does exist, or not? Am I missing something here? Oversimplifying it? Can you imagine the shitstorm if microsoft released a copy of windows that crashed every time you tried to use the sound feature, then refused that that was happening, then told people to just not use the sound, then banned any postings on their support forums which referenced an article confirming that it was, in fact, happening?
    - illumin8 16y ago
      That would suck, but a more apt analogy is if Ford made a car that had a defect, and Chevy owners created accounts on Ford owner forums specifically to complain about the Ford, even though they didn't own one, and even though they had never driven one before.
      - 16y ago

by ROFISH 16y ago

illumin8 16y ago

For some reason Apple spawns such hatred within the industry that fans of other products will actively create accounts and start trolling on their message boards. I don't go trolling on Blackberry forums about how their devices require reboots regularly, or Android forums about the Evo4G battery life issues, so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so?

jasonlotito 16y ago
> so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so? Because Apple's products impact so much of industry, that even if you don't use their products, their products impact your life. For example, just because you might not use a Microsoft product doesn't mean you aren't affected by Microsoft's choices. That's at least one of the reasons.
- illumin8 16y ago
  I'm not buying this - how does an iPhone 4 antenna issue affect someone that didn't even buy one? Are you being harmed if someone you call gets a dropped call because they held their iPhone 4 in the wrong way?
  - napierzaza 16y ago
    Uh oh, do you think this means that people who have RECEIVED phone calls from iPhone 4s will be in on the class action? Great.
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    Sorry. I was speaking generally, not specifically, in regards to why people who don't own Apple products react to them the way they do, or at least one reason. I was addressing the specific question in a general sense.
- napierzaza 16y ago
  So your concern is that Android and MS will start creating dubious antenna designs? Sheik, what a bunch of copycats. I think Apple's stance, that anyone who isn't satisfied with the iPhone 4 can return it within 30 days, is the right way to go. They said it before ANYONE had their phone for more than 30 days. Instead the people who weren't satisfied filed a class action lawsuit against Apple for making a "flawed" product. Can you tell me again why Apple OWES you a product that is perfectly free of defects? To the point of you being able to purchase that product and suing them over it instead of just getting a simple refund? This is as if they walked into the store, purchased the phone and yelled (across the internet) "this is a crappy phone, don't give me my money back, get me my lawyer". They then walked out of the store, and proceeded to use that phone for months while the trial went through its paces. Likely those months of horrible reception will only add to the charges they will put against the iPhone. Also, could people direct this feeling elsewhere, where it is more meaningful and productive?
  - lwhi 16y ago
    Phones are sold with airtime contracts - refunds are usually difficult to obtain.
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    Sorry. I was speaking generally, not specifically, in regards to why people who don't own Apple products react to them the way they do, or at least one reason. I was addressing the specific question in a general sense. I will add this, however. When you purchase Apple products, you are beholden to them. They have a certain standard they need to live up to. If I am dissatisfied with a Dell, I have options with HP, or Lenovo, etc. If I'm not happy with Apple, I'm stuck. I have no other option for a Mac.
Batsu 16y ago
It's an issue of passion, I think. Compare Apple fans to that of the XBox or PS3. For some horrible reason, people will defend to the bitter end their console of choice. Nothing is gained or lost in these arguments, the same arguments are constantly thrown out, and quite frankly all the facts are widely available (system specs, regular issues like the RROD or hour-long installs) but no one cares. Everyone argues an opinion, and because this is the internet, quickly devolve a discussion to a flame war... I mean, really, how many Mac users have had serious issues with a one button mouse in the past decade?
- dieterrams 16y ago
  The funny thing is, I don't actually see this sort of behavior from Apple fans. There isn't that underlying insecurity that causes kids who can't afford multiple consoles to get into fanboy wars. We're generally happy enough with our choices that we don't feel the need to constantly attack people who chose differently. We often do explain why we think Apple products are better, but that's largely because we can't believe how competitors keep getting it wrong, not because we're trying to calm inner anxieties about having made the wrong choice. (It still amazes me how bad the interface design on MP3 players were years after the iPod took over the market.) The problem is that there are now tons of anti-Apple trolls hanging out on the Internet, a lot of whom are Android users who apparently feel the need to attack iPhone users with every spare moment. (Naturally, we defend ourselves.) What guts me is seeing this juvenile behavior on Hacker freaking News. This is by far one of the best online communities I've ever seen, but the anti-Apple trolling has definitely taken it down a notch.
  - illumin8 16y ago
    I just got downvoted (and upvoted) for pointing this out in my grandparent comment. The anti-Apple force is strong with these ones...
  - jarek 16y ago
    > The funny thing is, I don't actually see this sort of behavior from Apple fans. > We're generally happy enough with our choices I realize this is anecdote vs anecdote, but I see plenty of it. Where do you usually hang out on the internet?
jstrate 16y ago
For some reason Apple spawns the opposite of such hatred. Zealous apple fans stand in lines for days to purchase products, I think some of the hatred is directed at that behavior. Back on topic though, some people just haven't drank the kool-aid and want to discuss problems in a support forum. I don't see this forum moderation as an issue, as it seems only disruptive threads that didn't address problems were deleted.
- CaptainZapp 16y ago
  "I think some of the hatred is directed at that behavior." Those would have to be really sad folks. Why should anyone hate somebody for standing in-line for days to purchase an, in my opinion, overpriced gadget. I think more to the point is that Apple fanatics defend anything that Apple pulls off. I could come up with a multitude of examples, but my favorite is the finder bug, that when you moved a file to a different volume this may have resulted in complete loss of the file (something Unix figured out, like, 30 years ago). (http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/movebug.html http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/movebug.html) This is a bug, bugs happen and they can (and usually are fixed). But you had a bunch of rabid Apple fanatics who poisoned just about every discussion by trying to defend something undefensible. It's the same reason why you can't have reasonable discussions with members of a cult. What the dear leader says is THE TRUTH and everybody else is out there to get us, infiltrate us and destroy us. I may be modded to hell and then some for this comment, but that's really how I see it and it's annoying behaviour.
jarek 16y ago
Not to give such behaviour a carte blanche, which it doesn't deserve, but are you really surprised after some of the stuff Apple and their fans dish out? Every time an Apple fan mentions Windows crashing, every time someone says he's glad he uses a Mac after a Windows virus invariably activated by user stupidity pops up, every time a cringeworthy Mac vs PC ad (that's almost all of them, BTW) airs/aired, an anti-Apple troll is created. It's not cool, but you can't be surprised it happens. By the way, before yesterday, the last time I pulled the battery out of my ancient Blackberry 8100 (used daily) was on June 9... to swap a SIM card.

blhack 16y ago

Well, if it's a support board, wouldn't that make this even more salient? As far as I've heard, apple doesn't even really want to acknowledge that there is a problem. Lots of times when I'm looking for support, part of what I'm looking for is if other people are having the same problem. Linking an article detailing specifically why the problem you're having exists is very helpful when the company that built your defective phone doesn't want to help.

ROFISH 16y ago
Except that there's plenty of discussion about this on Apple's boards. This looks to be a case of deleting a bunch of "me too" topics. As a board admin myself, I like to make sure things are on topic and free of trolls. This Apple antenna thing is like a magnet for rabid pro-Android fans gloating, rabid anti-Apple haters schadenfreude, Internet trolls who do it for the lulz, and the poor people who actually have an issue. I really feel for the poor board moderators who have to sort between the four.
- blhack 16y ago
  I'm having trouble understanding. Is it okay for people to talk about the issue, and to reference an article talking about how, no, it really does exist, or not? Am I missing something here? Oversimplifying it? Can you imagine the shitstorm if microsoft released a copy of windows that crashed every time you tried to use the sound feature, then refused that that was happening, then told people to just not use the sound, then banned any postings on their support forums which referenced an article confirming that it was, in fact, happening?
  - illumin8 16y ago
    That would suck, but a more apt analogy is if Ford made a car that had a defect, and Chevy owners created accounts on Ford owner forums specifically to complain about the Ford, even though they didn't own one, and even though they had never driven one before.
    - 16y ago