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I've seen a couple of oblique references to this in other comments, but I'll go a little deeper: if you want to truly understand the prisoner's dilemma scenario
by jzl 9y ago
I've seen a couple of oblique references to this in other comments, but I'll go a little deeper: if you want to truly understand the prisoner's dilemma scenario and how it relates to human, or more generally, animal behavior, there is incredible coverage of the topic in Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. He pioneered the idea of running PD "competitions" in an attempt to discover the best evolutionary strategy for PD, and how these strategies might predict large-scale behavior in animal populations. Each competitor (other scientists and researchers) submitted a strategy for handling the PD in the form of written code that could face off against other strategies. Each round of competition consisted of thousands of iterations of the game. Some strategies were simple and some were incredibly complex. Across two competitions, the second with 60 competing strategies, the simple and "non-cynical" strategy called tit-for-tat won handily. (Tit-for-tat is mentioned briefly in the original article without any explanation.) This is the strategy:
- Unless provoked, the agent will always cooperate.
- If provoked, the agent will retaliate.
- The agent is quick to forgive.
- The agent must have a good chance of competing against the opponent more than once.
The fact that this strategy was a consistent winner in his competitions has led Dawkins to argue that "nice guys finish first" and could be a partial explanation for certain forms of so-called "altruistic" animal behavior -- behavior that seemingly gives no benefit to the altruist, except for the fact that too may benefit when it is their turn to be helped. See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_Guys_Finish_First https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_Guys_Finish_First
- pasiaj 9y agoI thought Tit-for-tat was the strategy that always repeated opponents last move. "Tit-for that with forgiveness" was the strategy that would occasionally cooperate even after an opponents defection.
- jzl 9y agoI copied those bullet points from the wikipedia article but yeah the wording is a little inexact. I think "quick to forgive" just means "retaliation only has a memory of one move".
- iainmerrick 9y agoRichard Dawkins didn't pioneer that idea, it was Robert Axelrod. The seminal book about the topic is Axelrod's "The Evolution of Cooperation": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation (Dawkins was a prominent advocate of Axelrod's work, though. And "The Selfish Gene" is definitely a great read in its own right.)
- jzl 9y agoThank you for the correction. I read the book about 10 years ago and completely forgot that he wasn't talking about himself. Finally had a chance to look at the chapter again now and indeed he is discussing Axelrod's competitions in great depth.
- iainmerrick 9y agoIf you haven't read Axelrod's book, give it a try -- it's absolutely terrific.
- kbenson 9y ago> - The agent must have a good chance of competing against the opponent more than once. I was actually thinking about this the other day. I was wondering how much the population size and matching algorithm in the iterated Prisoner's Dilemma matter to the strategy outcome. I suspect it's quite a lot, given that if you never play the same opponent again, strategies that defect often should come out quite well, but if you always play the same opponent, strategies that cooperate should do well. If grouping is bought into the system, such that there are multiple levels of subgroups with the smaller the group both are members in having higher chances of replaying in the same round, you might see interesting emergent behavior. I also wonder if that might allow for special elements (the "sociopath") to have interesting divergent strategies that work well as long as they don't achieve more than a small fraction of the total population and keep a relatively large amount of interactions to strangers.
- theobon 9y agohttp://ncase.me/trust/ http://ncase.me/trust/ is a great explainer that explores that question. How do different strategies compare depending on number of repeat interactions, population diversity and noise.
- kbenson 9y agoThanks, I think someone linked to that here the other week, but I didn't have a chance to go through it at the time. It's very well done, so I'm glad you supplied the impetus to revisit it. :)
- jonahx 9y agoI really like this, but had to stop halfway through because my laptop overheated and went to sleep.
- kbenson 9y agoThat seems a bit extreme for a browser app. Are you using a docking station, and have your laptop closed? I find mine sometimes overheats and shuts down when it's docked and closed and I'm doing something extreme like playing a game, but propping the lid open about an inch or two helped immensely with airflow.
- pizza 9y agoThat was Axelrod's tournament iirc
- 6502nerdface 9y ago> If provoked, the agent will retaliate. > The agent is quick to forgive. Reminds me a bit of Marcus Aurelius: "From Rusticus... I learned... with respect to those who have offended me by words, or done me wrong, to be easily disposed to be pacified and reconciled, as soon as they have shown a readiness to be reconciled." http://directingmind.com/meditations#1-7 http://directingmind.com/meditations#1-7
- brownbat 9y agoSuch a progressive lesson to get from a guy who, in less tender moments, beheaded people who wouldn't make sacrifices to the gods. Humanity is weird.
- briancleland 9y agoSource?
- brownbat 9y agoNp, check out accounts of the trial of Justin Martyr.
- literallycancer 9y agoSkimming through the wikipedia page, it doesn't seem MA was personally involved in his death. e: Never mind, I misread the original post.