3 ms·

There are boosted boards and electric bikes, and scooters/mopeds are bridge products between the two. I really question the need for that. For many people a s

There are boosted boards and electric bikes, and scooters/mopeds are bridge products between the two. I really question the need for that. For many people a scooter will be important if they can't skateboard/have no interest in trying. I think the majority of people who are willing to commute on something like that will prefer a board though. I imagine it's more stable at low speeds, it's got better ground clearance, it's faster to pick/fold up/carry, but probably most importantly it does look a whole lot less dorky. There's some reason to prefer a scooter to an electric bike, but I think the infrastructure around bikes makes the convenience kind of a non-issue. I would also prefer a bike to a scooter for long distance or higher speed, or if I had to go in a bike lane or the street. A moped on the other hand takes way more room to park (no bike racks) and is too heavy to be picked up. I think there are very few reasons to prefer that to a powerful e-bike with a good suspension, disk brakes and strong frame. Also, my own nomination: electric rollerblades. Still not much of a defining use case, but personally I'd prefer minimizing the form factor as much as possible. Make the wheels lock so you can do stairs without taking them off, make them convenient to remove, and make them small enough to fit in a drawer.

tabeth 9y ago
Well I think of it like: Walking - E-Skateboard - E-Scooter - E-Bike - E-Moped/Gas Scooter - E-Car Let's ignore skateboards for a minute, which are significantly more difficult to learn than any of the others. With this you have scooter vs. bike vs. car. A moped's main advantage is speed. A bike has exercise and familiarity. A car has cargo capability and can take more than one passenger. In general, the main tradeoff is weight and size. Anyway, I digress. I think the main reason to prefer a moped to an electric bike is because of turn signals and proper front and back lights. Once that's resolved I'd agree, there's less of a point of a moped/scooter. Unfortunately adding good lights and turn signals is nontrivial while preserving the lightness of a traditional bike. Safety is the most important thing and turn signals are key. There's a company called Jetson that has an interesting take on it, though.
- hwillis 9y ago
  Mopeds are step-through primarily to allow room for the engine under the footrest or above the rear wheel. For the same reason they have small tires and relatively high rake angles. In a lot of ways that's a straight downgrade: it makes the handling much less stable (which is why rake must be high), it makes the frame weaker (so it is constructed heavily to compensate) and it makes ride quality worse. Electric motors and batteries have very flexible envelopes so you can fit a very powerful powertrain in a bike with no problem- the battery just has to be very skinny. The big wheels and responsive handling mean slow speeds are very controllable compared to a moped, and the handling and bike weight is much lighter. What I think is really needed is an e-bike that is meant to be an actual road vehicle, IMO specifically that has a lot in common with a motorycle. Something with a much larger battery, streamlined wheels, a headlight and turn signals, and a comfortable seat. That would be just lovely. I still strongly feel that having a scooter form factor is not necessary to have those things, though. For instance the Haibike Xduro Trekking Pro[1] managed 32 mph and claims 30 miles range, but that's with pedaling (the bike provides 275% boost power). It also has front and rear lights, but no turn signals. Pretty good 51 lbs,and the frame looks like it's extra low to facilitate picking it up. Still, I wasn't able to find anything that provides the weight/power/range of an e-bike with the features of a motorcycle. [1]: Warning, spammy subscribe popups: http://electricbikeblog.com/haibike-xduro-trekking-pro-2015-review/ http://electricbikeblog.com/haibike-xduro-trekking-pro-2015-...
  - Grustaf 9y ago
    > Mopeds are step-through primarily to allow room for the engine under the footrest or above the rear wheel. Surely you meant the other way around?
    - hwillis 9y ago
      Engines are generally too wide to fit between your knees, since an engine is usually a vaguely cubic shape. In early mopeds the engine was below your feet[1], so there was no point in having a crossmember where your knees would be. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZweiRadMuseumNSU_Hildebrand_Wolfmueller.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZweiRadMuseumNSU_Hildebra...

tabeth 9y ago

Well I think of it like: Walking - E-Skateboard - E-Scooter - E-Bike - E-Moped/Gas Scooter - E-Car Let's ignore skateboards for a minute, which are significantly more difficult to learn than any of the others. With this you have scooter vs. bike vs. car. A moped's main advantage is speed. A bike has exercise and familiarity. A car has cargo capability and can take more than one passenger. In general, the main tradeoff is weight and size. Anyway, I digress. I think the main reason to prefer a moped to an electric bike is because of turn signals and proper front and back lights. Once that's resolved I'd agree, there's less of a point of a moped/scooter. Unfortunately adding good lights and turn signals is nontrivial while preserving the lightness of a traditional bike. Safety is the most important thing and turn signals are key. There's a company called Jetson that has an interesting take on it, though.

hwillis 9y ago
Mopeds are step-through primarily to allow room for the engine under the footrest or above the rear wheel. For the same reason they have small tires and relatively high rake angles. In a lot of ways that's a straight downgrade: it makes the handling much less stable (which is why rake must be high), it makes the frame weaker (so it is constructed heavily to compensate) and it makes ride quality worse. Electric motors and batteries have very flexible envelopes so you can fit a very powerful powertrain in a bike with no problem- the battery just has to be very skinny. The big wheels and responsive handling mean slow speeds are very controllable compared to a moped, and the handling and bike weight is much lighter. What I think is really needed is an e-bike that is meant to be an actual road vehicle, IMO specifically that has a lot in common with a motorycle. Something with a much larger battery, streamlined wheels, a headlight and turn signals, and a comfortable seat. That would be just lovely. I still strongly feel that having a scooter form factor is not necessary to have those things, though. For instance the Haibike Xduro Trekking Pro[1] managed 32 mph and claims 30 miles range, but that's with pedaling (the bike provides 275% boost power). It also has front and rear lights, but no turn signals. Pretty good 51 lbs,and the frame looks like it's extra low to facilitate picking it up. Still, I wasn't able to find anything that provides the weight/power/range of an e-bike with the features of a motorcycle. [1]: Warning, spammy subscribe popups: http://electricbikeblog.com/haibike-xduro-trekking-pro-2015-review/ http://electricbikeblog.com/haibike-xduro-trekking-pro-2015-...
- Grustaf 9y ago
  > Mopeds are step-through primarily to allow room for the engine under the footrest or above the rear wheel. Surely you meant the other way around?
  - hwillis 9y ago
    Engines are generally too wide to fit between your knees, since an engine is usually a vaguely cubic shape. In early mopeds the engine was below your feet[1], so there was no point in having a crossmember where your knees would be. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZweiRadMuseumNSU_Hildebrand_Wolfmueller.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZweiRadMuseumNSU_Hildebra...