5 ms·

So far 3 out of 3 reader comments at the bottom of that article somehow interpret the root cause as being the Navy's focus on diversity goals? Seriously?

rch 9y ago
Those comments are coming directly from Facebook, so they probably didn't even attempt to read the article.
nnfy 9y ago
When time is a finite resource, and it looks like these guys are overworked and under slept, prioritization is more important, and here people are dying, literally, possibly because seamen spend time in PC classes that they could be spending sleeping or learning more immediately useful, life saving skills. Another posted claims 5 hours of sleep. This is the military. It should be conflict prepared. Hardened. Diversity training should be an extremely low priority, if it is taught at all. I'd argue that it severely undermines the u.s. military by wasting time and crushing morale, for white men and minorities alike. I've seen the effects in the corporate world. The biggest opponent was a 30-year female in middle-upper management who was worried that people would start to presume that she only got her role via quota or diversity initiatives. Political correctness is almost antithetical to war and therefore military.
- SolarNet 9y ago
  Or as the article said, there were budget cuts 12 years ago (e.g. under Bush) that turned 9 months of specialized training specifically about this skill into a set of CDs. But sure, blame political correctness.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    Budget cuts, not time cuts. My solution of better time prioritization still stands. Gender and race sensitivity training is the last thing a fighting force should be spending time studying, IMO. This is the military, this is about war, feelings be damned. This is the last place to be walking on eggshells, afraid to criticize or speak out because you're worried about being perceived as racist or sexist. What happens when a male or female is not strong enough to do his or her job? I can't say myself, but I have anecdotes from friends in the forces. The job still gets done...some people just need to work harder. Those of us who are suddenly less equal... And when this post inevitably gets flagged, you will see that HN is part of the cultural problem. This is just as bad for the corporate world, I've seen that first hand. We still live in a world where we are moments from death, where people can and will take advantage of you. It is extremely myopic and sheltered to think that the world will pause to give you a chance to meet your diversity quota, and fight with restraint against for your now potentially weakened fighting force. Maybe this is a "flame war" topic because there is a much larger [suppressed] counterculture on the HN community than anyone is prepared to admit?
    - sctb 9y ago
      Not only have we asked you several times before not to start flamewars (which this is because you're posting with more inflammation and less thoughtfulness on a topic which you clearly know to be divisive), but we've also reminded you that users flag comments which break the guidelines, which this does. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- soneil 9y ago
  It's nothing to do with diversity. They're simply not seamen anymore. Just look at the terminology they're using. SWO - Surface Warfare Officer. Situational awareness long since moved from the bridge and the helm, to the Combat Information Center. It doesn't matter what colour, what gender they are. It matters that they're being trained to operate a weapons platform, not to sail a ship.
SolarNet 9y ago
Especially since the article highlighted the issue, budget cuts, more than 12 years ago (under Bush), that prevented training. And also two wars that prevented hands-on training that was meant to replace it.
avs733 9y ago
and they vote!

rch 9y ago

Those comments are coming directly from Facebook, so they probably didn't even attempt to read the article.

nnfy 9y ago

When time is a finite resource, and it looks like these guys are overworked and under slept, prioritization is more important, and here people are dying, literally, possibly because seamen spend time in PC classes that they could be spending sleeping or learning more immediately useful, life saving skills. Another posted claims 5 hours of sleep. This is the military. It should be conflict prepared. Hardened. Diversity training should be an extremely low priority, if it is taught at all. I'd argue that it severely undermines the u.s. military by wasting time and crushing morale, for white men and minorities alike. I've seen the effects in the corporate world. The biggest opponent was a 30-year female in middle-upper management who was worried that people would start to presume that she only got her role via quota or diversity initiatives. Political correctness is almost antithetical to war and therefore military.

SolarNet 9y ago
Or as the article said, there were budget cuts 12 years ago (e.g. under Bush) that turned 9 months of specialized training specifically about this skill into a set of CDs. But sure, blame political correctness.
- nnfy 9y ago
  Budget cuts, not time cuts. My solution of better time prioritization still stands. Gender and race sensitivity training is the last thing a fighting force should be spending time studying, IMO. This is the military, this is about war, feelings be damned. This is the last place to be walking on eggshells, afraid to criticize or speak out because you're worried about being perceived as racist or sexist. What happens when a male or female is not strong enough to do his or her job? I can't say myself, but I have anecdotes from friends in the forces. The job still gets done...some people just need to work harder. Those of us who are suddenly less equal... And when this post inevitably gets flagged, you will see that HN is part of the cultural problem. This is just as bad for the corporate world, I've seen that first hand. We still live in a world where we are moments from death, where people can and will take advantage of you. It is extremely myopic and sheltered to think that the world will pause to give you a chance to meet your diversity quota, and fight with restraint against for your now potentially weakened fighting force. Maybe this is a "flame war" topic because there is a much larger [suppressed] counterculture on the HN community than anyone is prepared to admit?
  - sctb 9y ago
    Not only have we asked you several times before not to start flamewars (which this is because you're posting with more inflammation and less thoughtfulness on a topic which you clearly know to be divisive), but we've also reminded you that users flag comments which break the guidelines, which this does. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
soneil 9y ago
It's nothing to do with diversity. They're simply not seamen anymore. Just look at the terminology they're using. SWO - Surface Warfare Officer. Situational awareness long since moved from the bridge and the helm, to the Combat Information Center. It doesn't matter what colour, what gender they are. It matters that they're being trained to operate a weapons platform, not to sail a ship.

SolarNet 9y ago

Especially since the article highlighted the issue, budget cuts, more than 12 years ago (under Bush), that prevented training. And also two wars that prevented hands-on training that was meant to replace it.

avs733 9y ago

and they vote!