5 ms·

It's not for money, it's for security. It's really no worse than what guys do.

mattmaroon 16y ago
It's really not worse at all, both are just people doing what they evolved to do. Society frowns upon it more so many of them feel they have to be coy about it.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Dishonesty is not worse than honesty, simply because it's evolved? By that logic, rape is also not worse than consensual sex (assuming it's evolved behavior). As rational and moral beings, aren't we supposed to transcend some of our evolutionary instincts?
  - mattmaroon 16y ago
    It's not dishonesty per se because it's not a conscious behavior. Most women don't know they give a rich guy bonus points, just as men consciously underrate the importance of their spouse's appearance. It's one of many areas where humanity's conscious thoughts and actions radically diverge. It's a subtle subconscious leaning. A similar example: doctors routinely prescribe things that get them paid more (for instance neurologists whose practices own their own MRI machines prescribe 4x more MRIs than ones who do not) however when examined under a polygraph, both groups say that the money is not an influencing factor. The money clearly is the difference, they just don't know it. (FWIW, rape is not believed by most in the field of evolutionary psychology to be a behavior that has evolved into "normal". It's gotten a lot of coverage in the field due to the controversial nature of the idea of rape as an adaptation, but there is no clear evidence for it in anthropology or studies of closely related primates.) The argument you pose about morality is dangerous. Who defines which of our genetic attributes are ok and which are not? Why is it perfectly fine to have brown hair, but immoral to want a rich husband (if only subconsciously) when you can't help either of them? If anything the latter is universal, the former occasional.
    - noname123 16y ago
      I agree with what you are saying to a certain degree, but following on your same line of thought, evolutionary psychology and what not - back in the cave-human age, cave-women look for security in a cave-man; this doesn't necessarily have to be money, but a sense of the cave-man's gravitas to inspire confidence and take care of shit when shit hits the fan. Counter-example to your thesis that women only want money: Musician's that only gets gigs in dive bars, firefighters that receive a municipal-level salary, and tons of bro's you would see at "bro-bars" with no financial prospect but a rabid enthusiasm for alcohol, local sports & Amerrrica. I'm not saying women aren't superficial. They are just as superficial as men except that they lie about their intentions to preserve their ego for themselves and to others. But that's no reason for men to be resigned about it. There's nothing more sad than a man who accepts the superficial reality of society and proceeds to go about "nest-building" and "peacocking" to attract a superficial trophy wife, and give up his freedom and personal goals in return. The system is easily hackable and I dare say, men are justified to hack the system as the whole mating-seeking thing is based on deception and dis-ingenuity. And there are tons of literature available online and in print about PUA for anyone who cares to explore that route.
      - Parabola 16y ago
        Young women care about manliness of the sort you describe, because they don't meet many rich guys and aren't trying to get married anyway. Women in their late twenties care about money because they interact with people with real jobs all the time and want to get married, and are probably starting to get ugly.
      - mattmaroon 16y ago
        I didn't say women want only money. They want success (and not only success) of which money is just the easiest and most direct indicator.

It's really not worse at all, both are just people doing what they evolved to do. Society frowns upon it more so many of them feel they have to be coy about it.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
Dishonesty is not worse than honesty, simply because it's evolved? By that logic, rape is also not worse than consensual sex (assuming it's evolved behavior). As rational and moral beings, aren't we supposed to transcend some of our evolutionary instincts?
- mattmaroon 16y ago
  It's not dishonesty per se because it's not a conscious behavior. Most women don't know they give a rich guy bonus points, just as men consciously underrate the importance of their spouse's appearance. It's one of many areas where humanity's conscious thoughts and actions radically diverge. It's a subtle subconscious leaning. A similar example: doctors routinely prescribe things that get them paid more (for instance neurologists whose practices own their own MRI machines prescribe 4x more MRIs than ones who do not) however when examined under a polygraph, both groups say that the money is not an influencing factor. The money clearly is the difference, they just don't know it. (FWIW, rape is not believed by most in the field of evolutionary psychology to be a behavior that has evolved into "normal". It's gotten a lot of coverage in the field due to the controversial nature of the idea of rape as an adaptation, but there is no clear evidence for it in anthropology or studies of closely related primates.) The argument you pose about morality is dangerous. Who defines which of our genetic attributes are ok and which are not? Why is it perfectly fine to have brown hair, but immoral to want a rich husband (if only subconsciously) when you can't help either of them? If anything the latter is universal, the former occasional.
  - noname123 16y ago
    I agree with what you are saying to a certain degree, but following on your same line of thought, evolutionary psychology and what not - back in the cave-human age, cave-women look for security in a cave-man; this doesn't necessarily have to be money, but a sense of the cave-man's gravitas to inspire confidence and take care of shit when shit hits the fan. Counter-example to your thesis that women only want money: Musician's that only gets gigs in dive bars, firefighters that receive a municipal-level salary, and tons of bro's you would see at "bro-bars" with no financial prospect but a rabid enthusiasm for alcohol, local sports & Amerrrica. I'm not saying women aren't superficial. They are just as superficial as men except that they lie about their intentions to preserve their ego for themselves and to others. But that's no reason for men to be resigned about it. There's nothing more sad than a man who accepts the superficial reality of society and proceeds to go about "nest-building" and "peacocking" to attract a superficial trophy wife, and give up his freedom and personal goals in return. The system is easily hackable and I dare say, men are justified to hack the system as the whole mating-seeking thing is based on deception and dis-ingenuity. And there are tons of literature available online and in print about PUA for anyone who cares to explore that route.
    - Parabola 16y ago
      Young women care about manliness of the sort you describe, because they don't meet many rich guys and aren't trying to get married anyway. Women in their late twenties care about money because they interact with people with real jobs all the time and want to get married, and are probably starting to get ugly.
    - mattmaroon 16y ago
      I didn't say women want only money. They want success (and not only success) of which money is just the easiest and most direct indicator.