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If ME isn't a backdoor why did Russia and China start efforts to surplant Intel with locally sourced processors (even before US embargo'd Intel from china)
by valarauca1 9y ago
If ME isn't a backdoor why did Russia and China start efforts to surplant Intel with locally sourced processors (even before US embargo'd Intel from china)
- baybal2 9y ago>even before US embargo'd Intel from china You can see how well this embargo works in every electronics mall
- valarauca1 9y agoIt isn't a blanket sanction, just against government and computing centers. The last 3 chinese super computers have used home grown FeiTeng RISC processors which were binary compatible to Itanium, but for new models their using OpenSPARC.
- equalunique 9y agoI wish there were OpenSPARC super computers in the US...
- monocasa 9y agoEhh, SPARC was a great architecture for ancient process nodes, but doesn't really line up with today's needs IMO.
- 4ad 9y agoWhy not?
- subway 9y agoBecause the IP is too freely available for any one company to engage in the rent-seeking behavior the US is so fond of.
- bsder 9y agoRegister windows and delay slots. These turned out to be not such a great idea.
- exikyut 9y ago[I'm not a microarchitecture expert] I've read that x86 has multiple registers (eg, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9264195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9264195, http://blog.erratasec.com/2015/03/x86-is-high-level-language.html http://blog.erratasec.com/2015/03/x86-is-high-level-language...). "You want to do something with rax, so the processor grabs one of its 168 internal registers to play the role of rax for a moment" sounds like a type of register-window implementation to me. Or I'm completely misinterpreting the term. Note that my sentiment/tone in asking this is "huh, if that's the case then POWER and other architectures could really compete with x86!". (Assuming POWER doesn't use that approach.)
- monocasa 9y agoOoO register renaming is a nearly orthogonal concept compared to SPARC style register windows. And I say nearly, mainly because if you try to implement both it increases the complexity more than you would think due to microarchitectual interactions between the two concepts. Also, it's not really an x86 thing (for instance most Atoms don't have these extra registers), it's an in-order vs out-of-order thing. Most Power cores do have the larger bank and renaming.
- bsder 9y agoYou are describing "register renaming". And it's what everybody discovered was a better idea than putting "specific tasks" to registers with windows, banks, etc. Of course, IBM knew about this way back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomasulo%27s_algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomasulo%27s_algorithm Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.
- 4ad 9y agoWhat, specifically, about register windows and delay slots makes them unsuitable for today's needs? PS: read my profile description.
- gnufx 9y agoWell, there are half a dozen SPARC systems in the Top 500, most notably <https://www.top500.org/system/177232> https://www.top500.org/system/177232>, with substantial longevity and currently top place in the HPCG benchmark list. They reflect needs in my area, at least. See also Fujitsu's M series?
- pantalaimon 9y ago> The last 3 chinese super computers have used home grown FeiTeng RISC processors which were binary compatible to Itanium, but for new models their using OpenSPARC. Where did you get that information? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SW26010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SW26010 doesn't claim any of that.
- bri3d 9y agoChina's newest supercomputers are based on Sunway like you linked, but newer FeiTeng models (post-Itanium) were indeed OpenSPARC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FeiTeng_(processor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FeiTeng_(processor)
- gnufx 9y agoI don't understand what the SPARC "front end" actually is, but the Tianhe-2 Top 500 figure comes from Intel processors <https://www.top500.org/system/177999> https://www.top500.org/system/177999>.
- SXX 9y agoStill it does work. It's may not prevent foreign government for getting electronics, but it increase costs significantly and kill local commercial companies in that market.
- Chaebixi 9y ago>> even before US embargo'd Intel from china > You can see how well this embargo works in every electronics mall IIRC, the embargo was only against very specific processors used in a specific supercomputer design.
- baybal2 9y agoI mean both Phi, and Itanics. Just look for them in places trading second hand server equipment
- leeter 9y agoFor the same reason the government requires chips made in the US for Classified uses. If a fab is in another country there is always the possibility that the design could be compromised. Even shipping chips internationally can cause this concern as the chips can be swapped out. This isn't exactly a new concept... Russia did this to the US embassy a long while back http://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/ http://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/
- 4ad 9y agoSo what chips does the US government use for classified purposes?
- leeter 9y agoMostly the same chips everybody else does, but made in a special purpose fab in the US. This extends to everything in a computer (even firmware etc.). This means that a computer for use in classified settings is a LOT more expensive than your average desktop.
- rrix2 9y agoGiven the Intel ME has a High Assurance Program mode in it... probably Intel chips?
- semi-extrinsic 9y agoWe know that Amazon had Intel create custom chips specially for them, like the E5-2666 v3. So of course Uncle Sam have their own top secret bespoke Intel SKUs.
- 4ad 9y agoAmazon buys a significant fraction of the chips produced by Intel. I don't know how many security-sensitive chips the US government needs, but I'd be willing to bet it's a drop in the ocean.
- astrange 9y agoWhy wouldn't they? It seems like Westerners believe in comparative advantage to the point they can't imagine wanting local competitors to other countries' most successful monopolies.