6 ms·

Why is it not banned?

base698 9y ago
It is in the land of the free. It's generally not banned in Europe, so most BASE jumpers who are active spend at least a few weeks a year there. About 10 to 20 die world wide in about a population of 1000 or so active jumpers. It can be done relatively safely but the group isn't big enough to regulate effectively and most BASE jumpers are hostile to anyone mentioning the idea.
- sundvor 9y ago
  How many would die of other causes, such as .. car crashes.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    Probably a much smaller numbers. Cars are engineered to protect all but the most reckless and negligent from death.
    - Zigurd 9y ago
      Inside the car. Globally about half of road deaths are outside the vehicle.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Out of any given pool of 1000 people? Probably not as many.
    - Piskvorrr 9y ago
      And out of a pool of similar 1000 people? I seem to recall that affluent young men used to kill themselves in sports-car racing in the preceding decades. Perhaps this is a confounding factor: as Spooky23 notes in a sibling comment, "Cars are engineered to protect all but the most reckless and negligent from death" - but indeed, who else would choose BASE but the reckless and the self-proclaimed immortals?
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        If we're talking about car racing, rather than just driving a car, yes, I agree it is pretty dangerous. Probably still not as dangerous as trying to navigate canyons in a wing suit.
  - sundvor 9y ago
    I guess my point was to try to see through the attractive headlines, to compare base number deaths to a baseline. Looking at http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/129_death_and_death_rates_by_age.html http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/129_death_and_death_rat... For the age group 25-44 we have 269.8 male deaths per 100k, vs 114.8 female ones - or a total of 192.0 per 100k regardless of gender, or nearly ~2 per 1000. Looking at http://base-jumping.eu/base-jumping-fatality-list/ http://base-jumping.eu/base-jumping-fatality-list/ , which might be a bit dated, I see 26 fatalities listed for 2015 world wide. I tried to find how many base jumpers exist, and ended up on a forum where it was speculated upon. Perhaps 3000? In which case we have a mortality of ~9 per thousand , no age group discrimination. So.. from that perhaps naive collection I see a 4-5x increased risk of dying if being a base jumper compared to just being average. However one can ponder if it would help fight depression and such. And, looking at death rates for 45+ , cancer then becoming a major killer with obesity certainly being a factor. How many lives does the fitness regime of base jumping save?
- manarth 9y ago
  It is in the land of the free I'm aware that BASE jumping is banned in US National Parks (and it's been argued that this increases the risk [1]), but it doesn't seem to be banned generally in America (see Perrine Bridge, or Bridge Day, for example [2]). [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/22/did-rules-not-risk-cause-dean-potters-base-jumping-death https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/22/did-rules... [2] http://www.nerverush.com/base-jumping-locations-plan-jump/ http://www.nerverush.com/base-jumping-locations-plan-jump/
  - base698 9y ago
    Most of the safe wingsuit flights are in national parks. The Perrine is fun but it's not a 3000 ft mountain with waterfall views on the way down.
_tulpa 9y ago
Why should it be? It's not like poeple don't understand the risk - especially by the time they get to the point where they can actually do it. What about all the other 'extreme' sports where death and/or serious injury is a possible outcome?
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  > Why should it be? Because someone one has to clean up the mess. And it wastes the coroners time. I'm not saying I agree that it should be banned, but those seem like two obvious angles.
  - saiya-jin 9y ago
    but where do you cut the line of acceptable? one out of endless examples - what about forumla 1/indycar racing? utterly useless and highly unecological activity, pushing technology and people to its limits. sounds faimilar? is it more acceptable because you own a car?
  - icebraining 9y ago
    They'd die eventually anyway, so the coroners time doesn't seem to wasted, just anticipated. Cleanup the mess is a valid point, but only justifies posting a bond at most.
  - _tulpa 9y ago
    Valid concerns, sure. But how is banning it a good solution? How do you even enforce a ban on a group of people who are okay risking their lives for fun? Maybe instead you get them contributing to a local SAR organization. Maybe they have to get insurance. Or something else more constructive and less ham-fisted than just making it illegal. Why is banning stuff so high on everyone's list of solutions to problems that don't really affect them?
    - dkersten 9y ago
      > problems that don't really affect them? Perhaps because: > And it wastes the coroners time. means it does affect them (the tax payers)? Personally, I think as few things as possible should be banned/restricted. If things directly impact other peoples lives, then sure, but if its indirect or minimal, then perhaps not. Its a difficult balance though (but in general, I'm in the "the less government involvement in the peoples lives the better" camp).
marze 9y ago
Freedom. On the other hand, in many states it is banned and illegal to sign a waiver stating you understand the risks, then buy and consume unpasteurized milk.
ghshephard 9y ago
Why isn't climbing mount everest (an activity of similar lethal consequences) banned?
- RobertoG 9y ago
  Some people makes it look like a walk in the park. Twice in one week without supplemental oxygen: http://www.kilianjornet.cat/en/blog/kilian-jornet-summits-everest-twice-in-one-week-without-supplemental-oxygen/ http://www.kilianjornet.cat/en/blog/kilian-jornet-summits-ev... Anyway, it's a good economic resource for those countries.
InclinedPlane 9y ago
Why isn't eating cheeseburgers or watching television banned?
PoachedSausage 9y ago
How would you enforce a ban on people jumping off tall objects? The Antenna part of BASE must be getting harder to achieve. When I worked in the radio and TV broadcast industry we had problems with BASE jumpers climbing masts at remote unmanned sites, but physical security is always being improved. Also, you wouldn't want to try climbing onto a live high power mast radiator, you would be vaporized.
- mcv 9y ago
  A ban might not stop people from jumping, but it would certainly underscore that this is dangerous. I don't think there's any commercial BASE jumping, but if there is/was, a ban would definitely stop that.
  - timwaagh 9y ago
    the article goes on at some length on the role of coporate sponsors of jumpers.
marssaxman 9y ago
Why must everything dangerous be illegal? Some people are comfortable taking greater risks than others. We should be free to make that choice without threat of legal harassment.

It is in the land of the free. It's generally not banned in Europe, so most BASE jumpers who are active spend at least a few weeks a year there. About 10 to 20 die world wide in about a population of 1000 or so active jumpers. It can be done relatively safely but the group isn't big enough to regulate effectively and most BASE jumpers are hostile to anyone mentioning the idea.

sundvor 9y ago
How many would die of other causes, such as .. car crashes.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Probably a much smaller numbers. Cars are engineered to protect all but the most reckless and negligent from death.
  - Zigurd 9y ago
    Inside the car. Globally about half of road deaths are outside the vehicle.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Out of any given pool of 1000 people? Probably not as many.
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    And out of a pool of similar 1000 people? I seem to recall that affluent young men used to kill themselves in sports-car racing in the preceding decades. Perhaps this is a confounding factor: as Spooky23 notes in a sibling comment, "Cars are engineered to protect all but the most reckless and negligent from death" - but indeed, who else would choose BASE but the reckless and the self-proclaimed immortals?
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      If we're talking about car racing, rather than just driving a car, yes, I agree it is pretty dangerous. Probably still not as dangerous as trying to navigate canyons in a wing suit.
- sundvor 9y ago
  I guess my point was to try to see through the attractive headlines, to compare base number deaths to a baseline. Looking at http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/129_death_and_death_rates_by_age.html http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/129_death_and_death_rat... For the age group 25-44 we have 269.8 male deaths per 100k, vs 114.8 female ones - or a total of 192.0 per 100k regardless of gender, or nearly ~2 per 1000. Looking at http://base-jumping.eu/base-jumping-fatality-list/ http://base-jumping.eu/base-jumping-fatality-list/ , which might be a bit dated, I see 26 fatalities listed for 2015 world wide. I tried to find how many base jumpers exist, and ended up on a forum where it was speculated upon. Perhaps 3000? In which case we have a mortality of ~9 per thousand , no age group discrimination. So.. from that perhaps naive collection I see a 4-5x increased risk of dying if being a base jumper compared to just being average. However one can ponder if it would help fight depression and such. And, looking at death rates for 45+ , cancer then becoming a major killer with obesity certainly being a factor. How many lives does the fitness regime of base jumping save?
manarth 9y ago
It is in the land of the free I'm aware that BASE jumping is banned in US National Parks (and it's been argued that this increases the risk [1]), but it doesn't seem to be banned generally in America (see Perrine Bridge, or Bridge Day, for example [2]). [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/22/did-rules-not-risk-cause-dean-potters-base-jumping-death https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/22/did-rules... [2] http://www.nerverush.com/base-jumping-locations-plan-jump/ http://www.nerverush.com/base-jumping-locations-plan-jump/
- base698 9y ago
  Most of the safe wingsuit flights are in national parks. The Perrine is fun but it's not a 3000 ft mountain with waterfall views on the way down.

_tulpa 9y ago

Why should it be? It's not like poeple don't understand the risk - especially by the time they get to the point where they can actually do it. What about all the other 'extreme' sports where death and/or serious injury is a possible outcome?

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
> Why should it be? Because someone one has to clean up the mess. And it wastes the coroners time. I'm not saying I agree that it should be banned, but those seem like two obvious angles.
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  but where do you cut the line of acceptable? one out of endless examples - what about forumla 1/indycar racing? utterly useless and highly unecological activity, pushing technology and people to its limits. sounds faimilar? is it more acceptable because you own a car?
- icebraining 9y ago
  They'd die eventually anyway, so the coroners time doesn't seem to wasted, just anticipated. Cleanup the mess is a valid point, but only justifies posting a bond at most.
- _tulpa 9y ago
  Valid concerns, sure. But how is banning it a good solution? How do you even enforce a ban on a group of people who are okay risking their lives for fun? Maybe instead you get them contributing to a local SAR organization. Maybe they have to get insurance. Or something else more constructive and less ham-fisted than just making it illegal. Why is banning stuff so high on everyone's list of solutions to problems that don't really affect them?
  - dkersten 9y ago
    > problems that don't really affect them? Perhaps because: > And it wastes the coroners time. means it does affect them (the tax payers)? Personally, I think as few things as possible should be banned/restricted. If things directly impact other peoples lives, then sure, but if its indirect or minimal, then perhaps not. Its a difficult balance though (but in general, I'm in the "the less government involvement in the peoples lives the better" camp).

marze 9y ago

Freedom. On the other hand, in many states it is banned and illegal to sign a waiver stating you understand the risks, then buy and consume unpasteurized milk.

ghshephard 9y ago

Why isn't climbing mount everest (an activity of similar lethal consequences) banned?

RobertoG 9y ago
Some people makes it look like a walk in the park. Twice in one week without supplemental oxygen: http://www.kilianjornet.cat/en/blog/kilian-jornet-summits-everest-twice-in-one-week-without-supplemental-oxygen/ http://www.kilianjornet.cat/en/blog/kilian-jornet-summits-ev... Anyway, it's a good economic resource for those countries.

InclinedPlane 9y ago

Why isn't eating cheeseburgers or watching television banned?

PoachedSausage 9y ago

How would you enforce a ban on people jumping off tall objects? The Antenna part of BASE must be getting harder to achieve. When I worked in the radio and TV broadcast industry we had problems with BASE jumpers climbing masts at remote unmanned sites, but physical security is always being improved. Also, you wouldn't want to try climbing onto a live high power mast radiator, you would be vaporized.

mcv 9y ago
A ban might not stop people from jumping, but it would certainly underscore that this is dangerous. I don't think there's any commercial BASE jumping, but if there is/was, a ban would definitely stop that.
- timwaagh 9y ago
  the article goes on at some length on the role of coporate sponsors of jumpers.

marssaxman 9y ago

Why must everything dangerous be illegal? Some people are comfortable taking greater risks than others. We should be free to make that choice without threat of legal harassment.