4 ms·

I was drawn to it because it doesn't use systemd. (There seem to be a lot of people who dislike systemd.) Void uses runit instead of systemd. This has made it (

by da02 9y ago

I was drawn to it because it doesn't use systemd. (There seem to be a lot of people who dislike systemd.) Void uses runit instead of systemd. This has made it (for me at least) easier to use than Arch/systemd. It was also one of the first to adopt LibreSSL. The main downside for me is I have to manually install browsers. Void's packages for desktop software is sometimes out-of-date. But, I'm willing to overlook it because of all the other positives.

nine_k 9y ago
(Writing this from a Void Linux installation:) I don't know about Chromium, but Firefox 55 was no more than a week late, which I can totally live with.
- da02 9y ago
  You're correct. In the past the Firefox updates were very late sometimes (based an anecdotes I've read), but the situation has improved and should keep improving as more people adopt Void. (I manually install Google Chrome and Opera. It's difficult for package managers to maintain them because of licensing and other issues.)
- bugmen0t 9y ago
  If you download a Mozilla build of Firefox into somewhere user-writable, like ~/opt/, it will update itself.
- JohnZi 9y ago
  Chromium is mostly outdated since none of the Void maintainers really uses it and want to maintain it.
JdeBP 9y ago
Of course, systemd is not the only option on Arch nowadays. * https://framagit.org/taca/archnosh https://framagit.org/taca/archnosh
- da02 9y ago
  Thanks for that. It says: "In other words, one can benefit from existing systemd unit files through automatic conversion in many cases." I'm worried it means, "many, but not all" cases. There is also Manjaro Openrc. But, my buggy experience with it made me decide to go with a distro designed from scratch to use a different init system. Do you use Archnosh on a daily basis? Any issues converting systemd unit files over to nosh?
  - JdeBP 9y ago
    I don't use Archnosh because I do not possess an Arch Linux system. I do use the nosh toolset on a daily basis on Debian, FreeBSD, TrueOS, and OpenBSD. I don't think that the conversion process not being capable of automatically converting every possible unit, just most of them, is something that should worry you. I suggest that you begin by reading the manual page on the subject as well as the sections on conversion in the nosh Guide and the worked example in the blurb: * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/convert-systemd-units.html http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/convert-systemd-units.... * http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide.html http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide.html * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/worked-example.html http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/worked-example.html That there are some outliers doing oddball things that this will not cover, requiring you to get your hands dirty writing run+stop+start+restart programs, is only a worry if you worry about writing such programs in the first place. If that is a worry, then observe that you have the same worry with runit. Ask yourself if you are worried about this with runit. (-: * http://jdebp.info./FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by-side.html http://jdebp.info./FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by... * http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide/creating-bundles.html http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide/creating-bundles.htm... At the time of writing, the nosh toolset has just over 540 pre-supplied service bundles, not counting log and etc services, from ModemManager through initctld to zfsd. An interesting and somewhat topical example of the automatic conversion in practice was when I took the now-infamous example of a systemd unit that declared User=0day, ran it through the convertor, and started the resultant service. You can see what happened, and (more importantly) what did not happen: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681857 Other examples: * mailcatcher.service: https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/200281/5132 https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/200281/5132 * sickbeard.service: https://askubuntu.com/a/617822/43344 https://askubuntu.com/a/617822/43344
baldfat 9y ago
> This has made it (for me at least) easier to use than Arch/systemd Not to open up that bag of worms, but I haven't heard anyone say Systemd is harder to use. It was made to actually make it easier.
- da02 9y ago
  I'm willing to admit it could be laziness on my part. It could also be I'm doing something wrong. The info on this page for systemd: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Writing_unit_files https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Writing_unit_fi... seems harder for me to understand than the info on runit: http://kchard.github.io/runit-quickstart/ http://kchard.github.io/runit-quickstart/
  - JdeBP 9y ago
    The Arch wiki doco is also wrong, which probably does not help. There's a glaring error in the first paragraph there. There are in fact nine places where system-level unit files are searched for, not two. Three are in the systemd doco. Three are intentionally undocumented. Two are build-configuration-dependent and usually the same as some of the others. And one was erased from the doco for an clearly invalid reason. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#MissingUsrLocalLibSystemd http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#Missi...
- da02 9y ago
  On second thought, you're right. The statment is wrong on my part. Systemd seems to have pleased the Arch developers and made their lives easier. I was trying to say: Void seems easier to use and stable. Thanks for pointing this out. Sorry for my carelessness. (I still would never use a systemd-based distro. I've had fewer problems since leaving it. And I've read too many horror stories to go back. And I suspect it led to many if the problems I had installing and booting. Void has a smaller community than Arch and Ubuntu, yet installs and biots up faster on my junky machines than Arch and Ubuntu. Granted, I can't blame systemd for this.... but I'll include it anyway in the lineup of suspects.)
pmoriarty 9y ago
"I was drawn to it because it doesn't use systemd." You know, Gentoo, which is way more widely used than Void, and more mature than Arch, gives you the option of going without systemd.
- da02 9y ago
  Don't I have to compile everything on Gentoo before installation?

by da02 9y ago

nine_k 9y ago

(Writing this from a Void Linux installation:) I don't know about Chromium, but Firefox 55 was no more than a week late, which I can totally live with.

da02 9y ago
You're correct. In the past the Firefox updates were very late sometimes (based an anecdotes I've read), but the situation has improved and should keep improving as more people adopt Void. (I manually install Google Chrome and Opera. It's difficult for package managers to maintain them because of licensing and other issues.)
bugmen0t 9y ago
If you download a Mozilla build of Firefox into somewhere user-writable, like ~/opt/, it will update itself.
JohnZi 9y ago
Chromium is mostly outdated since none of the Void maintainers really uses it and want to maintain it.

JdeBP 9y ago

Of course, systemd is not the only option on Arch nowadays. * https://framagit.org/taca/archnosh https://framagit.org/taca/archnosh

da02 9y ago
Thanks for that. It says: "In other words, one can benefit from existing systemd unit files through automatic conversion in many cases." I'm worried it means, "many, but not all" cases. There is also Manjaro Openrc. But, my buggy experience with it made me decide to go with a distro designed from scratch to use a different init system. Do you use Archnosh on a daily basis? Any issues converting systemd unit files over to nosh?
- JdeBP 9y ago
  I don't use Archnosh because I do not possess an Arch Linux system. I do use the nosh toolset on a daily basis on Debian, FreeBSD, TrueOS, and OpenBSD. I don't think that the conversion process not being capable of automatically converting every possible unit, just most of them, is something that should worry you. I suggest that you begin by reading the manual page on the subject as well as the sections on conversion in the nosh Guide and the worked example in the blurb: * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/convert-systemd-units.html http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/convert-systemd-units.... * http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide.html http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide.html * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/worked-example.html http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/worked-example.html That there are some outliers doing oddball things that this will not cover, requiring you to get your hands dirty writing run+stop+start+restart programs, is only a worry if you worry about writing such programs in the first place. If that is a worry, then observe that you have the same worry with runit. Ask yourself if you are worried about this with runit. (-: * http://jdebp.info./FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by-side.html http://jdebp.info./FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by... * http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide/creating-bundles.html http://jdebp.info./Softwares/nosh/guide/creating-bundles.htm... At the time of writing, the nosh toolset has just over 540 pre-supplied service bundles, not counting log and etc services, from ModemManager through initctld to zfsd. An interesting and somewhat topical example of the automatic conversion in practice was when I took the now-infamous example of a systemd unit that declared User=0day, ran it through the convertor, and started the resultant service. You can see what happened, and (more importantly) what did not happen: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681857 Other examples: * mailcatcher.service: https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/200281/5132 https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/200281/5132 * sickbeard.service: https://askubuntu.com/a/617822/43344 https://askubuntu.com/a/617822/43344

baldfat 9y ago

> This has made it (for me at least) easier to use than Arch/systemd Not to open up that bag of worms, but I haven't heard anyone say Systemd is harder to use. It was made to actually make it easier.

da02 9y ago
I'm willing to admit it could be laziness on my part. It could also be I'm doing something wrong. The info on this page for systemd: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Writing_unit_files https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Writing_unit_fi... seems harder for me to understand than the info on runit: http://kchard.github.io/runit-quickstart/ http://kchard.github.io/runit-quickstart/
- JdeBP 9y ago
  The Arch wiki doco is also wrong, which probably does not help. There's a glaring error in the first paragraph there. There are in fact nine places where system-level unit files are searched for, not two. Three are in the systemd doco. Three are intentionally undocumented. Two are build-configuration-dependent and usually the same as some of the others. And one was erased from the doco for an clearly invalid reason. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#MissingUsrLocalLibSystemd http://jdebp.eu./FGA/systemd-documentation-errata.html#Missi...
da02 9y ago
On second thought, you're right. The statment is wrong on my part. Systemd seems to have pleased the Arch developers and made their lives easier. I was trying to say: Void seems easier to use and stable. Thanks for pointing this out. Sorry for my carelessness. (I still would never use a systemd-based distro. I've had fewer problems since leaving it. And I've read too many horror stories to go back. And I suspect it led to many if the problems I had installing and booting. Void has a smaller community than Arch and Ubuntu, yet installs and biots up faster on my junky machines than Arch and Ubuntu. Granted, I can't blame systemd for this.... but I'll include it anyway in the lineup of suspects.)

pmoriarty 9y ago

"I was drawn to it because it doesn't use systemd." You know, Gentoo, which is way more widely used than Void, and more mature than Arch, gives you the option of going without systemd.

da02 9y ago
Don't I have to compile everything on Gentoo before installation?