4 ms·

> I despise America Sadly it was his own State that killed him in the end.

by krisives 9y ago

rurounijones 9y ago
"detest", not "despise". Small thing I know but accuracy is important.
- manyhands 9y ago
  Fortunately those two words are synonyms, so readers have not been terribly misled.
  - DonbunEf7 9y ago
    Hi! Lemme help you out here. "Detest" and "despise" are not synonyms. To detest is to speak out against; to despise is to look down upon. Their roots come directly from Latin/French. If you detest something, you are issuing speech which indicates that you dislike it. If you despise something, you have observed it and disliked your observation (or, more usually, something about the detail of the observation!) When people use these words in idioms like, "I despise and detest their actions," they are saying that they have seen the actions, they do not like what they have seen, and they are now speaking out to denounce those actions.
    - grzm 9y ago
      > To detest is to speak out against Interesting. I've never heard this use. The definitions I've seen of detest are some form of dislike intensely. Reviewing Merriam-Webster[0], I see there is an obsolete sense of detest that means to curse. > 1 : to feel intense and often violent antipathy toward : loathe · detests politics · They seem to truly detest each other. > 2 obsolete : curse, denounce I can't recall ever having across across the word used in this way in American English. I've only seen the first sense used, and would have interpret someone saying "despise and detest" to be effectively doubling (redundantly) for emphasis, not to distinguish between the two. [0]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detest https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detest
      - rainbowmverse 9y ago
        An American dictionary in 2017 might reflect different meanings than a British person in the '50s and earlier used.
        umanwizard 9y ago
        OED should have citations for these purported meanings, if they exist. Does anyone have access (perhaps through a university library) and can check?
    - umanwizard 9y ago
      I'm a native English speaker and I have never met anyone who makes this distinction, after having spoken English with many thousands of people in my life. Etymology doesn't determine meaning. I'm open to the possibility that in 1950s England these words meant what you say (even though in my native dialect of English they don't), but to argue that you would need to give citations, not etymologies.
      - damnfine 9y ago
        You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive. Words mean things. Just because you, and many others don't always observe the minutae of meaning, does not erase it. There are words you, and 1000 other peers, have not learned yet. That does not render them meaningless.
        dctoedt 9y ago
        > You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive. That's not what he said.
        umanwizard 9y ago
        Sure, words mean things. But meaning is a social phenomenon. If you want to prove a word means something, you have to provide citations of it being used with that meaning.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >"Detest" and "despise" are not synonyms. To detest is to speak out against; to despise is to look down upon. Their roots come directly from Latin/French. If you detest something, you are issuing speech which indicates that you dislike it. If you despise something, you have observed it and disliked your observation (or, more usually, something about the detail of the observation!) Not for the last 2-3 centuries it is not. For people reading Beowulf in the first edition, maybe. Detest 1. to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely. (dictionary.com) 1 to feel intense and often violent antipathy toward : loathe detests politics They seem to truly detest each other. 2 obsolete : curse, denounce (Merriam-Webster) 1. to hate someone or something very much (Cambridge dictionary) 1. Dislike intensely (Oxford dictionary) >Their roots come directly from Latin/French. Which is irrelevant as to their current meaning. Now, we are not that different. My correction is also driven by the same joy of correcting others that makes people learn some obscure obsolete factoid and insist on it as if the whole world is wrong and they are right. The only difference is I'm right :-)
    - dec0dedab0de 9y ago
      so if someone says "I despise..." then they are destesting.
  - rurounijones 9y ago
    Even if they are synonyms (which has been gone into great detail below): It is a 3 word quote. Is it really that hard to get it right? Is it really acceptable to get such a simple quote wrong when writing it down to an audience? If you quote someone and get it slightly wrong then given a few generations of small modification by others getting it slightly wrong and meanings can change drastically.
manyhands 9y ago
Why is this downvoted? It's true.
- grzm 9y ago
  The site guidelines ask > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html I don't have any insight as to why this particular comment was down voted. (Edit to add: I suspect it was down voted because it misquotes the source material.) If it's something you're really interested in looking into more in general, I suggest searching HN for other discussions on votes and taking some more time to think about what might cause someone to down vote, whether you agree with the possible reason or not. As an aside, just because a comment is true doesn't mean it's somehow immune to down votes. Comments in general should be civil and constructive.
  - manyhands 9y ago
    My question was entirely rhetorical. I thought it important to clarify that the post was factually correct, and one should not take its font color as an indication otherwise, even though that is usually a sensible assumption regarding downvoted posts that are simple statements of fact. Incidentally, when did HN guidelines start privileging entertainment value? That is certainly at odds with what I consider the spirit of this community to be.
    - mirimir 9y ago
      Well, it's clear that he died of cyanide poisoning. It's been thought that he committed suicide. It's arguable that UK authorities are responsible for that, given his prosecution for homosexuality, and court-ordered estrogen therapy to reduce his sex drive. Some have further suggested that British Security Services assassinated him.[0,1] Rudy Rucker features that theory in Turing & Burroughs, but has Turing survive. Roger Bristow argued that the FBI assassinated him.[2] I don't believe that any clear evidence has been revealed. 0) http://mentalfloss.com/article/64049/did-alan-turing-inspire-apple-logo http://mentalfloss.com/article/64049/did-alan-turing-inspire... 1) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530751/Security-services-killed-code-breaker-Alan-Turing-gay-claims-campaigner-Peter-Tatchell.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530751/Security-ser... 2) https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/was-alan-turing-murdered-author-roger-bristow-says-yes.html https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/was-alan-turin...

> I despise America Sadly it was his own State that killed him in the end.

rurounijones 9y ago

"detest", not "despise". Small thing I know but accuracy is important.

manyhands 9y ago
Fortunately those two words are synonyms, so readers have not been terribly misled.
- DonbunEf7 9y ago
  Hi! Lemme help you out here. "Detest" and "despise" are not synonyms. To detest is to speak out against; to despise is to look down upon. Their roots come directly from Latin/French. If you detest something, you are issuing speech which indicates that you dislike it. If you despise something, you have observed it and disliked your observation (or, more usually, something about the detail of the observation!) When people use these words in idioms like, "I despise and detest their actions," they are saying that they have seen the actions, they do not like what they have seen, and they are now speaking out to denounce those actions.
  - grzm 9y ago
    > To detest is to speak out against Interesting. I've never heard this use. The definitions I've seen of detest are some form of dislike intensely. Reviewing Merriam-Webster[0], I see there is an obsolete sense of detest that means to curse. > 1 : to feel intense and often violent antipathy toward : loathe · detests politics · They seem to truly detest each other. > 2 obsolete : curse, denounce I can't recall ever having across across the word used in this way in American English. I've only seen the first sense used, and would have interpret someone saying "despise and detest" to be effectively doubling (redundantly) for emphasis, not to distinguish between the two. [0]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detest https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detest
    - rainbowmverse 9y ago
      An American dictionary in 2017 might reflect different meanings than a British person in the '50s and earlier used.
      - umanwizard 9y ago
        OED should have citations for these purported meanings, if they exist. Does anyone have access (perhaps through a university library) and can check?
  - umanwizard 9y ago
    I'm a native English speaker and I have never met anyone who makes this distinction, after having spoken English with many thousands of people in my life. Etymology doesn't determine meaning. I'm open to the possibility that in 1950s England these words meant what you say (even though in my native dialect of English they don't), but to argue that you would need to give citations, not etymologies.
    - damnfine 9y ago
      You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive. Words mean things. Just because you, and many others don't always observe the minutae of meaning, does not erase it. There are words you, and 1000 other peers, have not learned yet. That does not render them meaningless.
      - dctoedt 9y ago
        > You used those 2 words with 1000s of people and noticed a trend? Impressive. That's not what he said.
      - umanwizard 9y ago
        Sure, words mean things. But meaning is a social phenomenon. If you want to prove a word means something, you have to provide citations of it being used with that meaning.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >"Detest" and "despise" are not synonyms. To detest is to speak out against; to despise is to look down upon. Their roots come directly from Latin/French. If you detest something, you are issuing speech which indicates that you dislike it. If you despise something, you have observed it and disliked your observation (or, more usually, something about the detail of the observation!) Not for the last 2-3 centuries it is not. For people reading Beowulf in the first edition, maybe. Detest 1. to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely. (dictionary.com) 1 to feel intense and often violent antipathy toward : loathe detests politics They seem to truly detest each other. 2 obsolete : curse, denounce (Merriam-Webster) 1. to hate someone or something very much (Cambridge dictionary) 1. Dislike intensely (Oxford dictionary) >Their roots come directly from Latin/French. Which is irrelevant as to their current meaning. Now, we are not that different. My correction is also driven by the same joy of correcting others that makes people learn some obscure obsolete factoid and insist on it as if the whole world is wrong and they are right. The only difference is I'm right :-)
  - dec0dedab0de 9y ago
    so if someone says "I despise..." then they are destesting.
- rurounijones 9y ago
  Even if they are synonyms (which has been gone into great detail below): It is a 3 word quote. Is it really that hard to get it right? Is it really acceptable to get such a simple quote wrong when writing it down to an audience? If you quote someone and get it slightly wrong then given a few generations of small modification by others getting it slightly wrong and meanings can change drastically.

manyhands 9y ago

Why is this downvoted? It's true.

grzm 9y ago
The site guidelines ask > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html I don't have any insight as to why this particular comment was down voted. (Edit to add: I suspect it was down voted because it misquotes the source material.) If it's something you're really interested in looking into more in general, I suggest searching HN for other discussions on votes and taking some more time to think about what might cause someone to down vote, whether you agree with the possible reason or not. As an aside, just because a comment is true doesn't mean it's somehow immune to down votes. Comments in general should be civil and constructive.
- manyhands 9y ago
  My question was entirely rhetorical. I thought it important to clarify that the post was factually correct, and one should not take its font color as an indication otherwise, even though that is usually a sensible assumption regarding downvoted posts that are simple statements of fact. Incidentally, when did HN guidelines start privileging entertainment value? That is certainly at odds with what I consider the spirit of this community to be.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Well, it's clear that he died of cyanide poisoning. It's been thought that he committed suicide. It's arguable that UK authorities are responsible for that, given his prosecution for homosexuality, and court-ordered estrogen therapy to reduce his sex drive. Some have further suggested that British Security Services assassinated him.[0,1] Rudy Rucker features that theory in Turing & Burroughs, but has Turing survive. Roger Bristow argued that the FBI assassinated him.[2] I don't believe that any clear evidence has been revealed. 0) http://mentalfloss.com/article/64049/did-alan-turing-inspire-apple-logo http://mentalfloss.com/article/64049/did-alan-turing-inspire... 1) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530751/Security-services-killed-code-breaker-Alan-Turing-gay-claims-campaigner-Peter-Tatchell.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530751/Security-ser... 2) https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/was-alan-turing-murdered-author-roger-bristow-says-yes.html https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/was-alan-turin...