10 ms·
Isn't the complexity here trivial when compared to the complexity of the cpu in smart watches?
by twiceaday 9y ago
Isn't the complexity here trivial when compared to the complexity of the cpu in smart watches?
- robertlagrant 9y agoPerhaps, but the ratio of number of people involved to complexity is much higher in making a watch like this.
- LeifCarrotson 9y agoI am inclined to agree with twiceaday on this, even with the qualifier of people involved to complexity. Obviously, if you factor in the entire supply chain for the whole industry, the semiconductor/electronics/plastics industry is higher, but I expect there are several ties in the quartz watch system where there are few people involved but huge amounts of complexity. The layout and routing of the microcontroller and the hard real-time operating system that runs on a moderately feature-rich watch have orders of magnitude more lines of code (not a precise measure of complexity, but it's close) than even the entire count of teeth on the gears of this watch. In fact, the argument that this involves fewer people seems to point to it being less complex. If one guy with a CNC micro lathe and some metal stock could make a precision clock like Chris of Clickspring, and a quartz watch takes huge industries with thousands of people, isn't the latter definitely more complicated?
- 21 9y agoThe way this article is written suggests that the whole clock was modeled on a computer, and that they even used a constraint solving system to figure out the gearing: "I rely on these equations and the powerful software to find a solution with our input. It's a question of using these tools to find new solutions." Also notice the quote towards the end that they were able to redesign the whole drive train just to make it a bit thinner. What I'm trying to say is that this watch has little in common with what people assume is a "hand made and designed watch". So this watch feels more like your later example, where you have the huge (computer) industry behind it.
- dsacco 9y agoIt's not a secret that the industry uses software for modeling. But it still has skilled staff operating that software. When people emphasize the artistry and craftsmanship of mechanical timepieces at this price point, they're talking about two facts: 1. Most such watches are designed in-house according to rigorous specifications and long R&D cycles, with the majority of tooling and manufacturing processing being wholly original and unique to the firm, 2. The watches are assembled and serviced entirely by hand with a sophisticated precision that takes watchmakers years to learn. On the upper end of the spectrum you have independent watchmakers like F.P. Journe who singlehandedly design and build entirely new systems in their movements.
- KGIII 9y agoFor those wondering about Clickspring, here is a link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLZioPDnFPNsETq9h35dgQq80Ryx-beOli&v=B8Y146v8HxE https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLZioPDnFPNsETq9h35dgQq80Ry... I advise you not to click on it. It will eat up your time and it takes your complete attention.
- LeoPanthera 9y agoKinda missing the point, I think.
- bdamm 9y agoA hand crafted digital watch could be a thing of beauty. Especially if the circuitry of the CPU was visible under a magnifying face.
- Nition 9y agoNot QUITE the same but this guy[1] makes Nixie Tube watches. Steve Wozniak has one. [1] http://cathodecorner.com http://cathodecorner.com
- themihai 9y agoI'm sure the complexity is not what drives the price so high...if you would replace Vacheron Constantin with Foxconn you wouldn't sell it for $1000 regardless of its complexity. Many luxury brands place ridiculous prices on specific items so that they can increase the sales of less expensive models.
- handedness 9y agoA five-year-long project involving some of the finest watchmakers in the world surely cost far more than $1m, and that watch will sell for much more than that at auction some day. If it was priced to reflect its complexity it would be probably more on the order of $10m or more. Much simpler movements frequently cost $1-2 million to develop, often higher.
- KGIII 9y agoYup. They will be rare and fetch good auction prices. I gave my watch collection to my son, keeping just a Citizen. He had them appraised and they have all pretty much retained or increased in value.
- stephengillie 9y agoIs there value to these devices beyond timekeeping and resale?
- gerdesj 9y agoBy smart watch I take it you mean one of those gas guzzling things that doesn't quite manage to do anything particularly useful that the phone you probably carry as well does rather better 8) I strapped a Citizen Eco watch on my wrist about 12 years ago. It charges itself via four solar panels behind the hands - they simply look black. The only pains are I have to do BST/GMT adjustments and worst of all: "30 days hath September ..." Oh, and its not water proof. The time keeping is good enough. I am surrounded by more ntp daemons than you can shake a stick at if I need millisecond accuracy, eg this laptop: $ ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter ============================================================================== +server1.webster 193.190.230.65 2 u 237 256 377 15.144 0.081 0.713 *85.199.214.100 .GPS. 1 u 11 64 377 12.541 -1.346 0.698 -ntp3.ds.network 203.135.184.123 2 u 196 256 377 334.847 4.998 23.715 +babbage.betadom 80.94.65.10 2 u 177 256 377 10.992 -0.505 1.023 Tut! one of the servers I'm using is showing an offset of nearly 5ms but it's OK: that system has a - against it. In a few days time I will be firing up a new member for the general ntp pool(s). I've been using it for many years and its time to give back. I'll be following this guide: https://www.ntpsec.org/white-papers/stratum-1-microserver-howto/ https://www.ntpsec.org/white-papers/stratum-1-microserver-ho... Depending on how that goes, I may be able to fire up quite a lot of them scattered across the UK. Some internet links I look after are only for failover and are largely idle most of the time.
- brightball 9y agoI recently purchased an Eco that has an atomic clock receiver to self correct every night. Auto charging and auto setting is very helpful. Even the dates are always right. It's a beautiful thing and I've gotten so used to having perfect time on my wrist that I actually feel strange when I don't have it.
- kqr 9y ago> doesn't quite manage to do anything particularly useful that the phone you probably carry as well does rather better I don't have a full fledged smartwatch, but a running watch with some smart features. Its killer feature is not to pretend to be a phone. It's much simpler than that. Its receiving (only high priority) notifications on my wrist. Incredibly convenient when I can't pick up my phone. Edit: apparently my phone strongly prefers "it's" over "its".
- MereInterest 9y agoI think I would view this as the watchmaker equivalent to making Commodore 64 demos in present day. It is utterly pointless, serves no practical purpose, and achieves effects that would be tremendously easier if obtained through a different method. But, it isn't there for the purpose of achieving those effects, but rather for showing off one's mastery of a craft.
- basicplus2 9y agoFor me it's about the human experience being an analogue one, and having a watch that works and expressed in an analogue way is a beauty in itself and is instantly relatable, and has a meaning in itself. So this is its value that is not just about showing off craft
- asjdfjasfjsfe 9y agoI think the main selling point for the people actually buying the watches is the exclusivity and display of wealth they represent. To get a sense, you could have a look at this amusing parody article. It is a parody, but there are nonetheless a lot of people who think this way. http://www.businessinsider.com/gselevator-on-wall-street-watches-2016-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/gselevator-on-wall-street-wat... I mean, I dig the notion of the human experience being "analogue." But the human experience doesn't normally include spending twenty-plus years worth of a normal person's wages for a useless trinket to wear on your wrist. I'm really torn about this. The device is something amazing, but the cost is extravagant in the extreme.
- dsacco 9y agoI can understand why you're torn, but - speaking here as someone who owns such a watch - people vastly overestimate the Veblen status potential of expensive watches, which is unfortunate because that can lead them to be quick to judge their owners. I have met wealthy people in the sort of industries you might typically associate with this kind of pedigreed excess (Wall St, Big Law), and those folks don't appear to recognize what I'm wearing at all. Often they're wearing smart watches these days. The truth is that extremely expensive watches are a poor form of wealth signaling unless they're loud (think of a Hublot encrusted with diamonds, or something extremely iconic like a Rolex). If you walk into nearly any room wearing a Patek, Lange, Vacheron, etc. I can virtually guarantee that your watch will simply go unnoticed. I actually like Rolex watches quite a lot for the real engineering work that goes into manufacturing them, but I don't own one specifically because I'd rather not broadcast an expensive item on my wrist. I consider watches like these to be a form of art that emerges from the idea of practicality but also frees itself from it (as do most collectors I've personally spoken to).
- Turing_Machine 9y agoThe chips in the smart watch aren't made by hand :-) Seriously, what you're paying for here is the labor (mental and physical) of a highly-skilled artisan. It's the same thing as paying more for a painting by a skilled artist than you do for an inkjet printout of a digital photo.