4 ms·

Why? I work at a newspaper, we've survived on ads for decades, the way we deliver them has just changed. Most newspapers are like this, are you saying we shoul

Why? I work at a newspaper, we've survived on ads for decades, the way we deliver them has just changed. Most newspapers are like this, are you saying we should not exist?

googl3_angst 9y ago
The recent push for AdNauseam seems to be from the 4chan, free speech crowd, as a reaction to Google efforts aimed at stifling politically incorrect speech on its platforms. See https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/4chan-fighting-google-fake-clicks.png https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/4chan-...
- chuckdries 9y ago
  This is especially frustrating because we don't use an ad network. We have an ad sales department that sells ad space directly to local businesses. They're not hurting google, just us.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Are your ads on the Adnauseum lists?
- etplayer 9y ago
  Slightly off topic, but I find the implication made in the image you linked that Google, a company which profits via wage labour, which owns property, is a "Communist" organisation to be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't a sincerely held view by some poor souls.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    4chan is not known for intellectual prowess.
  - Grue3 9y ago
    Google's wage-fixing practices do remind me of "planned economy". [1] [1] https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/ https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...
falcolas 9y ago
And here I thought newspapers were sold via subscriptions and at a per-issue price. Still costs me around $2.50 for a Sunday issue locally.
- SSLy 9y ago
  And that cost is subsidized by ads. Otherwise it'd cost $10.
  - na85 9y ago
    So why can't they produce content worth 10$?
    - KGIII 9y ago
      They do. Part of $X is paid by advertisers.
    - chuckdries 9y ago
      I think our content is worth $10, but of course we're a small paper, and very few people would pay $10 for it. If we paywalled our website, we'd just turn readers away and it would go counter to our mandate to inform the public. I don't like ads, and I use an ad blocker (though with very permissive dynamic filtering rules), but we gotta pay the bills and pure subscription models rarely make sense. Afaik, the only news agencies that work on subscriptions alone are the massive New York Times, which paywalls more than like 2 or 3 stories per user per week. Wire services like the Associated Press and Reuters make most of their money from member papers that pay into them to get access to content they otherwise couldn't afford to make. Some publications sell specifically to niches, Bloomberg has a public facing website but most of their content is only available for consumption via the infamous Bloomberg Terminal, a very expensive dedicated workstation they develop in house so people who trade, say corn futures, can access extremely realtime information and reporting on hyper specific corn stuff. All this is to say that selling subscriptions to the general public only works if you're the New York Times, and even then they still sell ads in print. EDIT: hey look the times does have ads. They're pretty unobtrusive but they're there.
na85 9y ago
Why can't you sustain your business from subscription fees?
- chuckdries 9y ago
  It just doesn't work. Most of our readers don't pay for news, and if they did, they'd probably pay for larger national papers. Back in the day of paper newspapers, our subscription fees had to be augmented with ad revenue as well.
  - na85 9y ago
    Sounds to me like a business model failing to adapt. The same phenomenon is occurring with car dealerships facing Tesla.
    - chuckdries 9y ago
      Yeah if we stopped selling ad space we'd be a failing business model, but we are selling ads, we are making money. It's a working business model right now. There's also the philosophical argument, our mandate is to inform the public, how can we do that if we paywall everything? Not everyone can afford the paywall, and even if they could there's still the UX friction of handling payment. The bottom line is we need to pay people to keep track of local government full time. It truly is a full time job. If we don't, who else will? In order to do this and allow concerned or interested citizens to share the things we learn on Facebook, ads make a lot more sense.
wongarsu 9y ago
Newspaper ads are a great model for how internet ads should work: Not overly distracting, properly screened and targeted at the general readership of the newspaper. Almost every internet ad fails in at least one of those three categories.

Why? I work at a newspaper, we've survived on ads for decades, the way we deliver them has just changed. Most newspapers are like this, are you saying we should not exist?

googl3_angst 9y ago

The recent push for AdNauseam seems to be from the 4chan, free speech crowd, as a reaction to Google efforts aimed at stifling politically incorrect speech on its platforms. See https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/4chan-fighting-google-fake-clicks.png https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/4chan-...

chuckdries 9y ago
This is especially frustrating because we don't use an ad network. We have an ad sales department that sells ad space directly to local businesses. They're not hurting google, just us.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Are your ads on the Adnauseum lists?
etplayer 9y ago
Slightly off topic, but I find the implication made in the image you linked that Google, a company which profits via wage labour, which owns property, is a "Communist" organisation to be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't a sincerely held view by some poor souls.
- KGIII 9y ago
  4chan is not known for intellectual prowess.
- Grue3 9y ago
  Google's wage-fixing practices do remind me of "planned economy". [1] [1] https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/ https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

falcolas 9y ago

And here I thought newspapers were sold via subscriptions and at a per-issue price. Still costs me around $2.50 for a Sunday issue locally.

SSLy 9y ago
And that cost is subsidized by ads. Otherwise it'd cost $10.
- na85 9y ago
  So why can't they produce content worth 10$?
  - KGIII 9y ago
    They do. Part of $X is paid by advertisers.
  - chuckdries 9y ago
    I think our content is worth $10, but of course we're a small paper, and very few people would pay $10 for it. If we paywalled our website, we'd just turn readers away and it would go counter to our mandate to inform the public. I don't like ads, and I use an ad blocker (though with very permissive dynamic filtering rules), but we gotta pay the bills and pure subscription models rarely make sense. Afaik, the only news agencies that work on subscriptions alone are the massive New York Times, which paywalls more than like 2 or 3 stories per user per week. Wire services like the Associated Press and Reuters make most of their money from member papers that pay into them to get access to content they otherwise couldn't afford to make. Some publications sell specifically to niches, Bloomberg has a public facing website but most of their content is only available for consumption via the infamous Bloomberg Terminal, a very expensive dedicated workstation they develop in house so people who trade, say corn futures, can access extremely realtime information and reporting on hyper specific corn stuff. All this is to say that selling subscriptions to the general public only works if you're the New York Times, and even then they still sell ads in print. EDIT: hey look the times does have ads. They're pretty unobtrusive but they're there.

na85 9y ago

Why can't you sustain your business from subscription fees?

chuckdries 9y ago
It just doesn't work. Most of our readers don't pay for news, and if they did, they'd probably pay for larger national papers. Back in the day of paper newspapers, our subscription fees had to be augmented with ad revenue as well.
- na85 9y ago
  Sounds to me like a business model failing to adapt. The same phenomenon is occurring with car dealerships facing Tesla.
  - chuckdries 9y ago
    Yeah if we stopped selling ad space we'd be a failing business model, but we are selling ads, we are making money. It's a working business model right now. There's also the philosophical argument, our mandate is to inform the public, how can we do that if we paywall everything? Not everyone can afford the paywall, and even if they could there's still the UX friction of handling payment. The bottom line is we need to pay people to keep track of local government full time. It truly is a full time job. If we don't, who else will? In order to do this and allow concerned or interested citizens to share the things we learn on Facebook, ads make a lot more sense.

wongarsu 9y ago

Newspaper ads are a great model for how internet ads should work: Not overly distracting, properly screened and targeted at the general readership of the newspaper. Almost every internet ad fails in at least one of those three categories.