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Diplomats targeted in sonic weapon attacks in Cuba have suffered brain damage

73 points by sambeau 9y ago

la_fayette 9y ago
this is fake news, isn't it?
- l5870uoo9y 9y ago
  I am not an intelligence expert but there are no obvious reason why Cuba (even if it is a hostile country) would do this now. The article link I shared above speculate if it is a intelligence gathering malfunction. Other theories also exists, but seems more unlikely.
  - heroprotagonist 9y ago
    It probably isn't Cuba doing it, but rather some other country's invasive spying tech that wasn't intended as a weapon.
    - transverse 9y ago
      cough Russia cough
l5870uoo9y 9y ago
Article with some motiv speculation: > While I have not served in Cuba, my experience in a number of similar hostile, high counterintelligence threat countries suggests that this is more likely a surveillance effort gone wrong, than the use of an offensive sonic weapon. > We have very little experience anywhere in the world with directed attacks designed to physically harm to our diplomats. However, the use of intrusive technical collection and surveillance which sometimes causes harm in its own right is consistent with past practice in Cuba and elsewhere. Source: http://www.newsweek.com/whos-making-our-diplomats-cuba-go-deaf-655219 http://www.newsweek.com/whos-making-our-diplomats-cuba-go-de...
4rt 9y ago
https://www.justsecurity.org/44289/sonic-attacks-diplomats-cuba-dont-rush-conclusions/ https://www.justsecurity.org/44289/sonic-attacks-diplomats-c... this suggests it might be more of an accident than an intentional attack (ie. weapon)
mhneu 9y ago
> What type of sonic weapon could engender that kind of harm? > Although low-frequency infrasound systems can “silently” cause a wide range of symptoms in human targets – including fairly severe inner ear and even hair cell damage – the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) doesn’t suggest that any brain damage can be caused. > High-frequency microwaves, however, could certainly cause brain damage without making a sound. If targeted at a person, small bursts could induce “shockwaves” in brain tissue, as well as the inner ear. Prolonged exposures could cause permanent damage. I'm not sure exactly what is being discussed by this article which is thinly sourced. However, it is true that _ultrasonic_ waves can change brain activity. It is typically difficult to couple ultrasonic waves to the head. We hear up to 20kHz. 100kHz is marginally attenuated by air. 1Mhz and above are highly attenuated by air, and that's why ultrasound imaging requires a gel to couple the ultrasound generator to your skin. IF the article is correct that some kind of sonic weapon caused low-grade brain injury, perhaps it was a super-high-amplitude ultrasound in the 50-300kHz range?
- mhneu 9y ago
  Update: from the justsecurity article: >The Russian security services were also known to flood the U.S. embassy in Moscow with electromagnetic radiation. They would beam concentrated microwaves and electronic pulses at the Embassy in an attempt to eavesdrop on U.S. typewriters and conversations. If very high levels of microwaves were used, perhaps this could explain the injuries. Microwaves are electromagnetic, not acoustic, but they are absorbed very weakly by water. It could be that people were injured by heating inside their ears or brain.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    I'm curious if the US embassy performs signal intelligence or other broad spectrum EM monitoring of the embassy facility.
    - zdkl 9y ago
      I'm not familiar with embassies specifically, but it stands to reason that some hold military grade communication hardware. Where that is the case, you can be pretty sure there's a squad of specialists nearby with all the antennas and diagnostic tools you can dream of. And that's not even accounting for the spooks.
dang 9y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14979979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14979979
nonbel 9y ago
Mild TBI: "While MRI and CAT scans are often normal, the individual has cognitive problems such as headache, difficulty thinking, memory problems, attention deficits, mood swings and frustration. [...] Common Symptoms of Mild TBI Fatigue Headaches Visual disturbances Memory loss Poor attention/concentration Sleep disturbances Dizziness/loss of balance Irritability-emotional disturbances Feelings of depression Seizures [...] These symptoms may not be present or noticed at the time of injury. They may be delayed days or weeks before they appear. The symptoms are often subtle and are often missed by the injured person, family and doctors." http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/symptoms-of-tbi/mild-tbi-symptoms/ http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/symptoms-of-tbi/mild-tbi... It doesn't really sound like a meaningful diagnosis to me.
fgGAMI 9y ago
I read somewhere that it's much more likely they contracted neurosyphilis.
transverse 9y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually done by Russia to harm US-Cuba relations.
junkculture 9y ago
Demonization of the enemy. Cuba has this tech? Yeah, right.
- mhneu 9y ago
  >Cuba has this tech? Yeah, right. Cuba's got a fairly solid secret service. They're not the completely backward nation you envision.

73 points by sambeau 9y ago

la_fayette 9y ago

this is fake news, isn't it?

l5870uoo9y 9y ago
I am not an intelligence expert but there are no obvious reason why Cuba (even if it is a hostile country) would do this now. The article link I shared above speculate if it is a intelligence gathering malfunction. Other theories also exists, but seems more unlikely.
- heroprotagonist 9y ago
  It probably isn't Cuba doing it, but rather some other country's invasive spying tech that wasn't intended as a weapon.
  - transverse 9y ago
    cough Russia cough

l5870uoo9y 9y ago

Article with some motiv speculation: > While I have not served in Cuba, my experience in a number of similar hostile, high counterintelligence threat countries suggests that this is more likely a surveillance effort gone wrong, than the use of an offensive sonic weapon. > We have very little experience anywhere in the world with directed attacks designed to physically harm to our diplomats. However, the use of intrusive technical collection and surveillance which sometimes causes harm in its own right is consistent with past practice in Cuba and elsewhere. Source: http://www.newsweek.com/whos-making-our-diplomats-cuba-go-deaf-655219 http://www.newsweek.com/whos-making-our-diplomats-cuba-go-de...

4rt 9y ago

https://www.justsecurity.org/44289/sonic-attacks-diplomats-cuba-dont-rush-conclusions/ https://www.justsecurity.org/44289/sonic-attacks-diplomats-c... this suggests it might be more of an accident than an intentional attack (ie. weapon)

mhneu 9y ago

> What type of sonic weapon could engender that kind of harm? > Although low-frequency infrasound systems can “silently” cause a wide range of symptoms in human targets – including fairly severe inner ear and even hair cell damage – the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) doesn’t suggest that any brain damage can be caused. > High-frequency microwaves, however, could certainly cause brain damage without making a sound. If targeted at a person, small bursts could induce “shockwaves” in brain tissue, as well as the inner ear. Prolonged exposures could cause permanent damage. I'm not sure exactly what is being discussed by this article which is thinly sourced. However, it is true that _ultrasonic_ waves can change brain activity. It is typically difficult to couple ultrasonic waves to the head. We hear up to 20kHz. 100kHz is marginally attenuated by air. 1Mhz and above are highly attenuated by air, and that's why ultrasound imaging requires a gel to couple the ultrasound generator to your skin. IF the article is correct that some kind of sonic weapon caused low-grade brain injury, perhaps it was a super-high-amplitude ultrasound in the 50-300kHz range?

mhneu 9y ago
Update: from the justsecurity article: >The Russian security services were also known to flood the U.S. embassy in Moscow with electromagnetic radiation. They would beam concentrated microwaves and electronic pulses at the Embassy in an attempt to eavesdrop on U.S. typewriters and conversations. If very high levels of microwaves were used, perhaps this could explain the injuries. Microwaves are electromagnetic, not acoustic, but they are absorbed very weakly by water. It could be that people were injured by heating inside their ears or brain.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  I'm curious if the US embassy performs signal intelligence or other broad spectrum EM monitoring of the embassy facility.
  - zdkl 9y ago
    I'm not familiar with embassies specifically, but it stands to reason that some hold military grade communication hardware. Where that is the case, you can be pretty sure there's a squad of specialists nearby with all the antennas and diagnostic tools you can dream of. And that's not even accounting for the spooks.

dang 9y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14979979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14979979

nonbel 9y ago

Mild TBI: "While MRI and CAT scans are often normal, the individual has cognitive problems such as headache, difficulty thinking, memory problems, attention deficits, mood swings and frustration. [...] Common Symptoms of Mild TBI Fatigue Headaches Visual disturbances Memory loss Poor attention/concentration Sleep disturbances Dizziness/loss of balance Irritability-emotional disturbances Feelings of depression Seizures [...] These symptoms may not be present or noticed at the time of injury. They may be delayed days or weeks before they appear. The symptoms are often subtle and are often missed by the injured person, family and doctors." http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/symptoms-of-tbi/mild-tbi-symptoms/ http://www.traumaticbraininjury.com/symptoms-of-tbi/mild-tbi... It doesn't really sound like a meaningful diagnosis to me.

fgGAMI 9y ago

I read somewhere that it's much more likely they contracted neurosyphilis.

transverse 9y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually done by Russia to harm US-Cuba relations.

junkculture 9y ago

Demonization of the enemy. Cuba has this tech? Yeah, right.

mhneu 9y ago
>Cuba has this tech? Yeah, right. Cuba's got a fairly solid secret service. They're not the completely backward nation you envision.