4 ms·

If you seriously score 1, then getting up to a score of 2 with a bug tracker will improve your life, the other 10 questions rank lower in cost/benefit. The res

by eterm 9y ago

If you seriously score 1, then getting up to a score of 2 with a bug tracker will improve your life, the other 10 questions rank lower in cost/benefit. The rest is much harder to influence and make happen, but if you can't get a bug database to happen before your new-person enthusiasm / grace period ends then I'd jump ship. I've a bunch of experience working for places which don't score well on the Joel test. It's not the end of the world but you will have to make adjustments so you don't dream of better while reading about how other people have build systems which spin up instances and run integration tests on every check-in while simultaneously running machine learning over their live logging for early fault detection. Remember those kind of things are the exception rather than the norm and focus on the things you can change. You probably have a month or two more before your "I can fix this!" attitude fades and you end up the jaded developer that you saw when you arrived and wondered, "how do they put up with this environment?".

user5994461 9y ago
It's 2017. It's not even acceptable to consider working in a company that's a 1. Should have left during the first week.
- troels 9y ago
  Nah, eterm is right. If you can fix it, you can stay. But if that isn't possible, I wholeheartedly agree.
  - reificator 9y ago
    The promise of a new platform would allow our score to jump rapidly. But that new platform never actually comes.
    - troels 9y ago
      If you tried and still aren't getting anywhere, move on to option #2.
      - reificator 9y ago
        Yep, that's the truth.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    It can't be fixed. All hope is delusional. It's a one, it's so bad to get to a one, you might not even get a computer to work on!
- reificator 9y ago
  There is a specific benefit/policy that is incredibly rare, that I personally need to maintain a halfway decent quality of life. Otherwise I'd be out of there.
- eterm 9y ago
  There are good things that can come from staying. If (when, really) the productivity gains come, management will notice and you'll be known as that person who improved things. This will give you good favour. And if it doesn't work out, next time you get asked in interview, "What are some challenges you have faced?" you can talk about how you introduced Git and JIRA to a company that didn't have source control and bug tracking. You can talk about how you tried to change a company culture from hand-editing files in production to having deployment scripts. You can talk about the challenges you faced. It gives you a clear answer to "Why are you leaving?", you can talk honestly about your expectations in terms of what a company should provide for its developers, talk about how your current company isn't or wasn't meeting those and use that to indirectly talk about how much of the joel test the prospective company can meet. It will give you a fresh sense of perspective too. In the future when you're struggling with a build system you can think, "well at least we're better than we were at Initrode". And maybe it's just a really nice place to work, not all work is about being as efficient as possible at all times. Sometimes you can stand back and realise that while other teams could do what you're doing in half the time, you're still getting paid to do this job and maybe your colleagues are warm and friendly.
  - Eridrus 9y ago
    > If (when, really) the productivity gains come, management will notice and you'll be known as that person who improved things. This will give you good favour. Management let it get this bad, what makes you think they will appreciate you improving things?
  - user5994461 9y ago
    The joel test is a test from 20 years ago, for what was not common place at the time. It's 2017 now, it's not acceptable to not have any of that, at all. The company simply doesn't value your environment or it wouldn't be like that. You are young and naive to think you can improve things and get credit.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
reificator 9y ago
I track bugs on my own, but I don't have a good enough system to handle our current setup IMO. (65 different codebases that do the same thing but can't share code because reasons, plus some stragglers that actually do unique things.) I have attempted on multiple occasions to encourage others to use something, anything with me, but to no avail. The standard response when you bring up a bug is "we have too many emergencies going on right now, we can't handle that until someone notices it and says something", which is usually the point where it becomes an emergency. :\ I have good reason to work here, but it's quickly getting drowned out by the reasons to run to the hills.

by eterm 9y ago

user5994461 9y ago

It's 2017. It's not even acceptable to consider working in a company that's a 1. Should have left during the first week.

troels 9y ago
Nah, eterm is right. If you can fix it, you can stay. But if that isn't possible, I wholeheartedly agree.
- reificator 9y ago
  The promise of a new platform would allow our score to jump rapidly. But that new platform never actually comes.
  - troels 9y ago
    If you tried and still aren't getting anywhere, move on to option #2.
    - reificator 9y ago
      Yep, that's the truth.
- user5994461 9y ago
  It can't be fixed. All hope is delusional. It's a one, it's so bad to get to a one, you might not even get a computer to work on!
reificator 9y ago
There is a specific benefit/policy that is incredibly rare, that I personally need to maintain a halfway decent quality of life. Otherwise I'd be out of there.
eterm 9y ago
There are good things that can come from staying. If (when, really) the productivity gains come, management will notice and you'll be known as that person who improved things. This will give you good favour. And if it doesn't work out, next time you get asked in interview, "What are some challenges you have faced?" you can talk about how you introduced Git and JIRA to a company that didn't have source control and bug tracking. You can talk about how you tried to change a company culture from hand-editing files in production to having deployment scripts. You can talk about the challenges you faced. It gives you a clear answer to "Why are you leaving?", you can talk honestly about your expectations in terms of what a company should provide for its developers, talk about how your current company isn't or wasn't meeting those and use that to indirectly talk about how much of the joel test the prospective company can meet. It will give you a fresh sense of perspective too. In the future when you're struggling with a build system you can think, "well at least we're better than we were at Initrode". And maybe it's just a really nice place to work, not all work is about being as efficient as possible at all times. Sometimes you can stand back and realise that while other teams could do what you're doing in half the time, you're still getting paid to do this job and maybe your colleagues are warm and friendly.
- Eridrus 9y ago
  > If (when, really) the productivity gains come, management will notice and you'll be known as that person who improved things. This will give you good favour. Management let it get this bad, what makes you think they will appreciate you improving things?
- user5994461 9y ago
  The joel test is a test from 20 years ago, for what was not common place at the time. It's 2017 now, it's not acceptable to not have any of that, at all. The company simply doesn't value your environment or it wouldn't be like that. You are young and naive to think you can improve things and get credit.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

reificator 9y ago

I track bugs on my own, but I don't have a good enough system to handle our current setup IMO. (65 different codebases that do the same thing but can't share code because reasons, plus some stragglers that actually do unique things.) I have attempted on multiple occasions to encourage others to use something, anything with me, but to no avail. The standard response when you bring up a bug is "we have too many emergencies going on right now, we can't handle that until someone notices it and says something", which is usually the point where it becomes an emergency. :\ I have good reason to work here, but it's quickly getting drowned out by the reasons to run to the hills.