7 ms·

Learning Coding After 40 and Leaving the 9 to 5 Job

96 points by Maciej001 9y ago

hartator 9y ago
I want to see some data about how these bootcamps perform in the job market, before seeing more ads for bootcamps.
- Maciej001 9y ago
  It's not the 3-months bootcamp that is supposed to make you a developer and promises you will get a job. I wanted to create an alternative space, where you can move to the next level in a very specific framework quickly, make friends with like-minded developers and enjoy the experience.
- ben_jones 9y ago
  Does anyone trust the data coming directly from bootcamps? Even if the data they present is technically accurate it's so easy to cherry pick or game the numbers that I would never be able to recommend bootcamps to people looking to make such a drastic transition in their lives.
  - altotrees 9y ago
    I am self-taught. Spent at least 2 hours a day learning everyday in my mid 20's. I think it is critical to find an experienced dev or engineer to be a code mentor and to be disciplined and give yourself realistic challenges and goals. Doing it the way I did saved me probably 10-15k and an expensive move. It may seem like an awesome idea to join a bootcamp, but just remember that you may be able to create an even better (and cheaper) environment for yourself with a little dedication and creativity. An aside: it really scares me how camps tout Backbone and React like they are the only frameworks you will ever need to know to be employable. It is way more important to figure out how you learn, so you can keep pace with changes when they come, because they always do. Just my experiences, and I would certainly never look down on anyone who did attend a bootcamp. Different strokes, as they say.
- jaf7 9y ago
  There is a nascent organization called the Council on Integrity in Results Reporting [0] that some bootcamps / code schools belong to. This is probably the best resource for such data. I think Flatiron School's jobs reports [1] come closest to setting a good example. No affiliation, just researching schools. [0] http://cirr.org http://cirr.org [1] https://flatironschool.com/outcomes https://flatironschool.com/outcomes
Scarbutt 9y ago
By read "Deep Focus" do you mean the "Deep work" book?
- Maciej001 9y ago
  Yes sure, "Deep Work". My bad...
  - rabidrat 9y ago
    Your attention to detail does not inspire confidence...
    - libertine 9y ago
      Go figure, someone making a mistake.
gaoshan 9y ago
I started learning to code in my mid-30's and am now in my mid-40's working as a developer. "Leave the 9 to 5 Job" is not accurate. Most people that follow the path described in the article will still be working regular business hours (frequently longer than 9 to 5 to be honest) sitting at a desk in an office setting, only now they will be writing code for a living.
- Scarbutt 9y ago
  But now you have the power and opportunity to "leave the 9 to 5 Job" by creating your little/niche SAAS.
  - pryelluw 9y ago
    Not at all. Being a developer does not automatically give you better odds at business. These are two very different skillsets. Creating a little/niche SAAS takes more than writing code. Most business failures from developers that Ive personally talked to is due to not understating how to market and sell. They thought they could hack it and automate it. This part is still very people centric even if you are not constantly interacting with them. I dont aim to sound mean but this is akin to thinking that every mechanic out there can be be a successful repair garage owner. Different skills. Its very hard and uncommon to have both technical and business skills. Why do you think YC puts so much money into finding people with both? Edited for spelling
    - csallen 9y ago
      I see your point and agree with it wholeheartedly, however I think you're responding to something that Scarbutt (what a name) didn't actually say. Namely, that being a developer guarantees you business success. It certainly doesn't. But it's still tremendously advantageous. And just as programming can be learned, so too can those business skills. It just requires some combination of reading, mentorship, time, practice, and experience. And that's really the whole point behind the interviews on Indie Hackers, and the community forum as well. To help people learn those skills.
jhack 9y ago
Leave the 9-to-5 job... for a 9-to-whenever job with no overtime pay.
gaius 9y ago
A novice programmer who has never programmed professionally themselves charging £1500 to train slightly-more-novice programmers? This isn't a tech startup or SaaS - it's a scam.
- Maciej001 9y ago
  I am not sure if you can call my instructors novice: Gerard Sans (Google Delveloper Expert), Chris Sevilleja (founder of scotch.io), Max Stoiber (creator of react-boiler plate and styled-components), Nik Graf (Draft.js plugins and polished) and many others. These guys are top trainers -> https://www.codecamps.com/trainers https://www.codecamps.com/trainers
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
martin1975 9y ago
Oppenheimer and many on his team were in their 50's when they discovered the atomic bomb.... so anything's possible. Age is but a number.
AndyNemmity 9y ago
Took a development job mid-30s (this year) after being a senior engineer but without any coding. It's been very difficult to be essentially a junior, while everyone's expectations are that you are far higher. Enjoyable in a lot of respects though, the biggest issues are all around expectations. I think I'm doing better than I have any right to be doing, but am far worse than any peer. Dealing with that dance is difficult.
- lawnchair_larry 9y ago
  While there's probably some truth to that, other folks who seem to have the answers are probably faking it more than you realize. The big difference is that you're hyper aware of your predicament and more likely to identify gaps in what you "should" know.
RikNieu 9y ago
This is not the story of someone who became a developer after 40, this is the story of someone who started a training small business. Not to suggest its bad or anything, but it's not what the title might imply.
noncoml 9y ago
If I’ve ever seen a clickbait title, then this is it. I’ve been coding for 25years. Trust me, learning coding after 40 is not going to give you financial freedom or chance to build your own business it SaaS it whatever. The best it can do is give you a 10-6 job, since programmers have usually more flexible hours. All these stories from indie hackers are like stories from people who won the lottery. Yes, there are people who made it, but for each one of them there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands who failed miserably. Or maybe it’s just sour grapes from my side. But that’s how I see it.
- imartin2k 9y ago
  So your recipe for "success" in life is to ignore the inspirational power of stories from those who beat the odds? What's that good for?
  - noncoml 9y ago
    My recipe for survival is staying away from anyone trying to prey of hope and desperation. That’s what all these bootcamps do. Learning to code at 40 to leave your 9-5 job is the worst advice one can give to someone.
    - imartin2k 9y ago
      Well, that's not really the author's advice, considering that he writes: "I wouldn't recommend quitting your job like I did. Especially, if you have an idea only. Test it first. Most probably, you have a lot of 'hidden' free time so you can test it while keeping your day job." If your point is that bootcamps generally are waste of time and money, and you suspect that the author just wants to promote his bootcamp, then that's a different thing of course.
- mojo_juju 9y ago
  "All these stories from indie hackers are like stories from people who won the lottery." I think it would be more of a spectrum, considering success isn't necessarily "won". It's a confluence of controllable and uncontrollable factors. The results of which represent a spectrum of value (output) and input (factors). Age is merely one of the factors involved in human productivity, and not necessarily the most important (the equation of coefficients affecting each factor would change over time of course).
jchicity 9y ago
Coding is a 9-5 job. If you do it independently it's a 24hr. job. Platforms and "standards" constantly changing. That whole space is fragmented and "nitchy" you have to hustle to keep up. Especially if you want to be cutting edge. U can always go work for a large co. but then that's just a 9-5. I guess this applies to a lot of things, but this can slow down your progress. Good luck!

96 points by Maciej001 9y ago

hartator 9y ago

I want to see some data about how these bootcamps perform in the job market, before seeing more ads for bootcamps.

Maciej001 9y ago
It's not the 3-months bootcamp that is supposed to make you a developer and promises you will get a job. I wanted to create an alternative space, where you can move to the next level in a very specific framework quickly, make friends with like-minded developers and enjoy the experience.
ben_jones 9y ago
Does anyone trust the data coming directly from bootcamps? Even if the data they present is technically accurate it's so easy to cherry pick or game the numbers that I would never be able to recommend bootcamps to people looking to make such a drastic transition in their lives.
- altotrees 9y ago
  I am self-taught. Spent at least 2 hours a day learning everyday in my mid 20's. I think it is critical to find an experienced dev or engineer to be a code mentor and to be disciplined and give yourself realistic challenges and goals. Doing it the way I did saved me probably 10-15k and an expensive move. It may seem like an awesome idea to join a bootcamp, but just remember that you may be able to create an even better (and cheaper) environment for yourself with a little dedication and creativity. An aside: it really scares me how camps tout Backbone and React like they are the only frameworks you will ever need to know to be employable. It is way more important to figure out how you learn, so you can keep pace with changes when they come, because they always do. Just my experiences, and I would certainly never look down on anyone who did attend a bootcamp. Different strokes, as they say.
jaf7 9y ago
There is a nascent organization called the Council on Integrity in Results Reporting [0] that some bootcamps / code schools belong to. This is probably the best resource for such data. I think Flatiron School's jobs reports [1] come closest to setting a good example. No affiliation, just researching schools. [0] http://cirr.org http://cirr.org [1] https://flatironschool.com/outcomes https://flatironschool.com/outcomes

Scarbutt 9y ago

By read "Deep Focus" do you mean the "Deep work" book?

Maciej001 9y ago
Yes sure, "Deep Work". My bad...
- rabidrat 9y ago
  Your attention to detail does not inspire confidence...
  - libertine 9y ago
    Go figure, someone making a mistake.

gaoshan 9y ago

I started learning to code in my mid-30's and am now in my mid-40's working as a developer. "Leave the 9 to 5 Job" is not accurate. Most people that follow the path described in the article will still be working regular business hours (frequently longer than 9 to 5 to be honest) sitting at a desk in an office setting, only now they will be writing code for a living.

Scarbutt 9y ago
But now you have the power and opportunity to "leave the 9 to 5 Job" by creating your little/niche SAAS.
- pryelluw 9y ago
  Not at all. Being a developer does not automatically give you better odds at business. These are two very different skillsets. Creating a little/niche SAAS takes more than writing code. Most business failures from developers that Ive personally talked to is due to not understating how to market and sell. They thought they could hack it and automate it. This part is still very people centric even if you are not constantly interacting with them. I dont aim to sound mean but this is akin to thinking that every mechanic out there can be be a successful repair garage owner. Different skills. Its very hard and uncommon to have both technical and business skills. Why do you think YC puts so much money into finding people with both? Edited for spelling
  - csallen 9y ago
    I see your point and agree with it wholeheartedly, however I think you're responding to something that Scarbutt (what a name) didn't actually say. Namely, that being a developer guarantees you business success. It certainly doesn't. But it's still tremendously advantageous. And just as programming can be learned, so too can those business skills. It just requires some combination of reading, mentorship, time, practice, and experience. And that's really the whole point behind the interviews on Indie Hackers, and the community forum as well. To help people learn those skills.

jhack 9y ago

Leave the 9-to-5 job... for a 9-to-whenever job with no overtime pay.

gaius 9y ago

A novice programmer who has never programmed professionally themselves charging £1500 to train slightly-more-novice programmers? This isn't a tech startup or SaaS - it's a scam.

Maciej001 9y ago
I am not sure if you can call my instructors novice: Gerard Sans (Google Delveloper Expert), Chris Sevilleja (founder of scotch.io), Max Stoiber (creator of react-boiler plate and styled-components), Nik Graf (Draft.js plugins and polished) and many others. These guys are top trainers -> https://www.codecamps.com/trainers https://www.codecamps.com/trainers
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

martin1975 9y ago

Oppenheimer and many on his team were in their 50's when they discovered the atomic bomb.... so anything's possible. Age is but a number.

AndyNemmity 9y ago

Took a development job mid-30s (this year) after being a senior engineer but without any coding. It's been very difficult to be essentially a junior, while everyone's expectations are that you are far higher. Enjoyable in a lot of respects though, the biggest issues are all around expectations. I think I'm doing better than I have any right to be doing, but am far worse than any peer. Dealing with that dance is difficult.

lawnchair_larry 9y ago
While there's probably some truth to that, other folks who seem to have the answers are probably faking it more than you realize. The big difference is that you're hyper aware of your predicament and more likely to identify gaps in what you "should" know.

RikNieu 9y ago

This is not the story of someone who became a developer after 40, this is the story of someone who started a training small business. Not to suggest its bad or anything, but it's not what the title might imply.

noncoml 9y ago

If I’ve ever seen a clickbait title, then this is it. I’ve been coding for 25years. Trust me, learning coding after 40 is not going to give you financial freedom or chance to build your own business it SaaS it whatever. The best it can do is give you a 10-6 job, since programmers have usually more flexible hours. All these stories from indie hackers are like stories from people who won the lottery. Yes, there are people who made it, but for each one of them there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands who failed miserably. Or maybe it’s just sour grapes from my side. But that’s how I see it.

imartin2k 9y ago
So your recipe for "success" in life is to ignore the inspirational power of stories from those who beat the odds? What's that good for?
- noncoml 9y ago
  My recipe for survival is staying away from anyone trying to prey of hope and desperation. That’s what all these bootcamps do. Learning to code at 40 to leave your 9-5 job is the worst advice one can give to someone.
  - imartin2k 9y ago
    Well, that's not really the author's advice, considering that he writes: "I wouldn't recommend quitting your job like I did. Especially, if you have an idea only. Test it first. Most probably, you have a lot of 'hidden' free time so you can test it while keeping your day job." If your point is that bootcamps generally are waste of time and money, and you suspect that the author just wants to promote his bootcamp, then that's a different thing of course.
mojo_juju 9y ago
"All these stories from indie hackers are like stories from people who won the lottery." I think it would be more of a spectrum, considering success isn't necessarily "won". It's a confluence of controllable and uncontrollable factors. The results of which represent a spectrum of value (output) and input (factors). Age is merely one of the factors involved in human productivity, and not necessarily the most important (the equation of coefficients affecting each factor would change over time of course).

jchicity 9y ago

Coding is a 9-5 job. If you do it independently it's a 24hr. job. Platforms and "standards" constantly changing. That whole space is fragmented and "nitchy" you have to hustle to keep up. Especially if you want to be cutting edge. U can always go work for a large co. but then that's just a 9-5. I guess this applies to a lot of things, but this can slow down your progress. Good luck!