4 ms·

> type system, static analysis, first-class IDE support Agree, but we have TypeScript, also static analysis is done for ES6 module dependency > multi-threadin

by ko27 9y ago

> type system, static analysis, first-class IDE support Agree, but we have TypeScript, also static analysis is done for ES6 module dependency > multi-threading This is wrong. JS has service workers, and sharred array buffers.

aphextron 9y ago
>This is wrong. JS has service workers, and sharred array buffers. Service Workers are not really threads as the runtime environment is still single threaded no matter what, you just have the ability to spawn a new process. On top of that browser support is sketchy at best, with no planned support for Safari or IE.
- lauritzsh 9y ago
  It is currently in development for Safari https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers
- JimDabell 9y ago
  > On top of that browser support is sketchy at best, with no planned support for Safari or IE. Apple is currently working on implementing it in Safari: https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers It's misleading to say that there's no planned support for Internet Explorer – Edge superseded Internet Explorer so all new development is going into Edge, not Internet Explorer. Service Worker support for Edge is under development: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/serviceworker/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platfor...
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    Edge superseded Internet Explorer Microsoft might like to think so, but until all our business clients agree with them, the real IE is still a significant limiting factor in deploying with any JS feature you can't effectively polyfill.
    - JimDabell 9y ago
      Okay, but that's an upgrade issue, not a dead-end issue like a lot of people would assume from being told that there's no plans to add it to Internet Explorer. Features get added to new versions, not old versions. Organisations using old versions will need to upgrade to new versions to get the new features. That's true of anything. It just happens in this case that Microsoft decided to go from Internet Explorer 11 to Edge instead of going to Internet Explorer 12. Saying that there's no plans to add support to Internet Explorer is like saying there's no plans to add support to Firefox 50 – true in a technical sense, but in practice, of course they add new features to new versions rather than old versions, and of course organisations have to upgrade.
      - Silhouette 9y ago
        It's not just an upgrade issue. Many organisations aren't running Windows 10 and so have no browser upgrade path to Edge at all. Many organisations still have an older version of IE, probably IE11 but sometimes earlier, as their standard desktop browser. Experience tells us that those organisations aren't in a hurry to upgrade their standard desktop deployment just to get a new browser so web developers can play with the shiny new toys. Did we learn nothing from the XP and IE6 era? So it's all very well talking about newer JS features, but pragmatically, you can't just wish away the need for compatibility with browsers more than a year or two old if your target audience is businesses, governments, or other large organisations. There's an unhealthy complacency among parts of the web dev community, as if something being available in the latest Chrome canary now means it can be used everywhere. That's just not how a distributed system works when you don't fully control the client. Even if it were, you're not just going to retrofit something as significant as multi-threaded architecture into most existing JS code bases. Outside the HN bubble, not everyone gets to start a greenfield JS project every six months. I think aphextron's original comment was fair and realistic: as a practical matter, even with the rapid pace of change in the JS ecosystem, we still can't use a lot of day-to-day features in JS that would be routine in most other modern programming languages.
        JimDabell 9y ago
alayek 9y ago
> JS has service workers Do you mean Web Workers? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Workers_API/Using_web_workers https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Workers...

by ko27 9y ago

aphextron 9y ago

>This is wrong. JS has service workers, and sharred array buffers. Service Workers are not really threads as the runtime environment is still single threaded no matter what, you just have the ability to spawn a new process. On top of that browser support is sketchy at best, with no planned support for Safari or IE.

lauritzsh 9y ago
It is currently in development for Safari https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers
JimDabell 9y ago
> On top of that browser support is sketchy at best, with no planned support for Safari or IE. Apple is currently working on implementing it in Safari: https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers https://webkit.org/status/#specification-service-workers It's misleading to say that there's no planned support for Internet Explorer – Edge superseded Internet Explorer so all new development is going into Edge, not Internet Explorer. Service Worker support for Edge is under development: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/serviceworker/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platfor...
- Silhouette 9y ago
  Edge superseded Internet Explorer Microsoft might like to think so, but until all our business clients agree with them, the real IE is still a significant limiting factor in deploying with any JS feature you can't effectively polyfill.
  - JimDabell 9y ago
    Okay, but that's an upgrade issue, not a dead-end issue like a lot of people would assume from being told that there's no plans to add it to Internet Explorer. Features get added to new versions, not old versions. Organisations using old versions will need to upgrade to new versions to get the new features. That's true of anything. It just happens in this case that Microsoft decided to go from Internet Explorer 11 to Edge instead of going to Internet Explorer 12. Saying that there's no plans to add support to Internet Explorer is like saying there's no plans to add support to Firefox 50 – true in a technical sense, but in practice, of course they add new features to new versions rather than old versions, and of course organisations have to upgrade.
    - Silhouette 9y ago
      It's not just an upgrade issue. Many organisations aren't running Windows 10 and so have no browser upgrade path to Edge at all. Many organisations still have an older version of IE, probably IE11 but sometimes earlier, as their standard desktop browser. Experience tells us that those organisations aren't in a hurry to upgrade their standard desktop deployment just to get a new browser so web developers can play with the shiny new toys. Did we learn nothing from the XP and IE6 era? So it's all very well talking about newer JS features, but pragmatically, you can't just wish away the need for compatibility with browsers more than a year or two old if your target audience is businesses, governments, or other large organisations. There's an unhealthy complacency among parts of the web dev community, as if something being available in the latest Chrome canary now means it can be used everywhere. That's just not how a distributed system works when you don't fully control the client. Even if it were, you're not just going to retrofit something as significant as multi-threaded architecture into most existing JS code bases. Outside the HN bubble, not everyone gets to start a greenfield JS project every six months. I think aphextron's original comment was fair and realistic: as a practical matter, even with the rapid pace of change in the JS ecosystem, we still can't use a lot of day-to-day features in JS that would be routine in most other modern programming languages.
      - JimDabell 9y ago

alayek 9y ago

> JS has service workers Do you mean Web Workers? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Workers_API/Using_web_workers https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Workers...