5 ms·

Boring? I love Mountain View and Palo Alto. Lovely little towns where you can walk everywhere. I guess it depends what you like doing though.

by axod 16y ago

abstractbill 16y ago
Totally agree. Having lived in London, I personally find San Francisco to have a lot of the downsides of being a "big city", without actually being a big city and so not having enough of the upsides (just to take one example, MUNI/BART is a joke compared to London's tube system). I love Palo Alto and Mountain View though, and would live in either town again in a heartbeat.
- cageface 16y ago
  Exactly. I get blank stares when I make this point around here but S.F. is big enough to be expensive, dirty, and sometimes dangerous but there's very little literary, musical, or otherwise artistic culture here and people just don't seem to be very intellectually curious outside of tech. If you're not into running around naked and high in the desert you'll have a hard time finding a social circle. Mass transit here is terrible and so is traffic and parking. You can live well here but not deeply.
  - axod 16y ago
    >> "and sometimes dangerous" The number of homeless/crazy people on the streets surprises me when I'm in SF. I know many are probably harmless, but crazy people jumping around, shouting abuse, or acting weird just doesn't make things inviting. Not to mention the beggars at the stop signs. Is there a system in the US for looking after mentally unstable people? eg would they be put into care if they don't have medical insurance?
    - cageface 16y ago
      A very large percentage of the homeless in the U.S. are mentally ill or have substance abuse problems http://helpinghomeless.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/mental-illness-and-homelessness/ http://helpinghomeless.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/mental-illne...
    - anamax 16y ago
      > Is there a system in the US for looking after mentally unstable people? eg would they be put into care if they don't have medical insurance? SF, like most large US cities, has lots of unused shelter and facilities. However, they're voluntary and many people won't volunteer.
    - philwelch 16y ago
      They can't be "put into care" against their will unless they are a proven danger to themselves or others, and many crazy homeless people are too adapted to the streets to successfully be put into care.
  - starkfist 16y ago
    I thought like you once. SF was driving me insane. But then I moved back to NYC from San Francisco and realized that art, music and literature is dying out everywhere in the USA. In New York, there's a lot more stuff like ping-pong clubs and designer boutiques and bike paths... but there certainly aren't as many interesting art, literary or music things happening as there were in the 1990s. San Francisco was never really an artistic or intellectual center, it's always just been kind of a weird place. I might be the only person on this forum who moved to SF to go skateboarding, rather than start a tech startup. If you move to SF hoping it will be a cultural mecca you will be disappointed. But if you go with the flow, you might find something you like.I don't like burning man, either. But there's other stuff to do. I have never been happier than when I was skating or riding my bike around the city, or just goofing off. Why do you think there are so many bums there? Why do you think the beats moved there? It's a great city in which to "bum around." It's kind of bad for almost anything else. I view my time spent there as an extended vacation.
    - cageface 16y ago
      You're probably right that this isn't localized to S.F. I have to imagine a capitol of the publishing world like NYC has more literary heft but even there I've heard that life tends toward the superficial. S.F. is a great city to just hang out in. Amazing food, great weather, and a generally laid back attitude make it very pleasant in many ways. I think the .com boom did a lot of damage to the city's culture by driving out everybody that couldn't afford to keep up with the rent increases. I spent a summer here in '92 and it seemed a lot more alive.
      - axod 16y ago
        >> "S.F. is a great city to just hang out in. Amazing food, great weather" Great weather? really? Seems like it's often very windy and cloudy to me. The amount of fog around is just bizarre as well.
        cageface 16y ago
        The weird thing about S.F. is that the weather can vary tremendously from neighborhood to neighborhood. The Mission can be sunny any day of the year. The ironically named Sunset is almost always fogged in. We also seem to get our seasons backwards here. Summer tends to be cold and foggy but Sep-Dec can be beautiful. It's not exactly San Diego weather here but coming from anywhere that snows it's pretty friendly.
  - jey 16y ago
    > little literary, musical, or otherwise artistic culture I think one of the problems is that you've forsaken the people who like to "run around naked and high in the desert"; all the creative types I know love Burning Man. Sure, you're not going to find the tea & crumpets type of art scene in SF, but there's definitely plenty of passionately creative people. There's also a tendency amongst tech people to just socialize with tech people, but I don't really get a kick out of it. You should definitely branch out to non-tech social circles and get out of the Rails/Django/Clojure echo chamber. From your description of the playa it sounds like you've never been out there... you should really try it. No, it's not all "naked and high" people, btw.
  - neilk 16y ago
    It all depends who you associate with. If I only hung around with techies / startuppers I think I'd have to shoot myself too. I'll take my "high in the desert" people over your "high in Williamsburg, Brooklyn" people any day. I agree that a lot of Burners are deeply annoying, but the core people who actually make it all happen (or the larger installations and camps) are often incredibly interesting, intellectually broad people, doing it all on a shoestring. If you think you're doing a lot with your life being in a startup you're probably not doing half of what they do in an average week.
    - cageface 16y ago
      Not having actually lived in Brooklyn I can't say for sure but there are a ton of interesting bands coming out of Brooklyn right now, you're in the publishing heart of the world, you've got some of the best art museums on the planet right next door, and you're not going to find better theater anywhere in the U.S. Compared to that the whole art-car, techno, cyberpunkish thing in S.F. just seems so provincial and quaint. I don't doubt that people put a lot of work into it but it just doesn't compel me at all.
      - wooster 16y ago
        If you really like theater, the Berkeley Repertory Theatre is just across the bay. There are a wide variety of other theater venues around the Bay Area. Santa Cruz for small stuff, San Francisco for a huge mix of productions from Broadway shows to weird warehouse stuff, and San Jose, Mountain View, Palo Alto, and Marin all have theater companies.
      - ktf 16y ago
        > there are a ton of interesting bands coming out of Brooklyn right now Not to nitpick, but many of the bands "coming out of Brooklyn right now" are bands that moved there from elsewhere to try to ride the "Brooklyn band = good" wave. It's weird how arbitrary and amorphous these various scenes can be. If you can't find good music coming out of SF, you're probably not looking hard enough. > Compared to that the whole art-car, techno, cyberpunkish thing in S.F. just seems so provincial and quaint. It seems odd (and inaccurate) to sum an entire city's culture up with 3 indistinct generalizations.
  - ktf 16y ago
    > there's very little literary, musical, or otherwise artistic culture here and people just don't seem to be very intellectually curious outside of tech I don't have enough hours in the day to go to all the film festivals, concerts, author readings, dance performances, gallery openings, and other similar events that are occurring all the time in SF. If you're looking for people who are interested in things outside of tech, you should start going to some of these events, and meeting people. Join the SF Film Society, for a start! Maybe I'll see you around...
    - starkfist 16y ago
      I had enough time to go to all of those things... SF is not a big place. The scene is not that much better than say, Minneapolis.
      - ktf 16y ago
        > I had enough time to go to all of those things... Sorry, maybe I'm taking you too literally here, but I find that hard to believe. You had time to attend every artistic event in SF, and you just weren't satisfied?
        starkfist 16y ago
        The last year I lived in San Francisco, I quit being an overworked startup employee and took an easy contracting job. I could leave the office around 4pm most days and made an effort to go to as many art and music things as possible. So you are taking me too literally, but I wasn't exaggerating by much.
      - geebee 16y ago
        I swear I don't mean to be glib here... but doesn't Minneapolis have a particularly vibrant music scene for a city its size? I think you've set a higher bar than a lot of people will realize.
        starkfist 16y ago
- axod 16y ago
  We're even getting wifi on the tube in time for the olympics apparently as well as free wifi all over central London... I've only visited SF for days, and stayed in a hotel there for a few days, but never really found my feet there. Like you say, it seemed like it has a lot of bad bits without the good bits being obviously there. Maybe they're hidden away :/ I'm much more at home strolling down University Ave or Castro st though. Relaxed, safe atmosphere with plenty to do.
  - ardit33 16y ago
    Really? I live right off Castro st, in Mountain View, and I am in University Ave in PA every other day. Once you spend a weekend on both places, you basically have seen it all. The restaurants are reallyu nice (Castro St. Mountain View being cheaper and more authentic), but appart that there is not much going on. It is very clean looking though, and if you have a family it is a good place. If you are single guy, you'd want to steer clear of them. There is not much going on excitement wise. I guess it is good, b/c you will get so bored that you will just work on your startup. The weather is really nice though. I lived in SF for 3.5 years, and I miss it. A lot more fun in general. There is never a boring moment.
    - axod 16y ago
      >> " Once you spend a weekend on both places, you basically have seen it all." Is that a bad thing, if it has most of what you need? >> "if you have a family it is a good place. If you are single guy, you'd want to steer clear of them." Definitely agree. I'm a family guy though. Perhaps I'm just getting old ;)

Boring? I love Mountain View and Palo Alto. Lovely little towns where you can walk everywhere. I guess it depends what you like doing though.

by axod 16y ago

Boring? I love Mountain View and Palo Alto. Lovely little towns where you can walk everywhere. I guess it depends what you like doing though.

abstractbill 16y ago

Totally agree. Having lived in London, I personally find San Francisco to have a lot of the downsides of being a "big city", without actually being a big city and so not having enough of the upsides (just to take one example, MUNI/BART is a joke compared to London's tube system). I love Palo Alto and Mountain View though, and would live in either town again in a heartbeat.

cageface 16y ago
Exactly. I get blank stares when I make this point around here but S.F. is big enough to be expensive, dirty, and sometimes dangerous but there's very little literary, musical, or otherwise artistic culture here and people just don't seem to be very intellectually curious outside of tech. If you're not into running around naked and high in the desert you'll have a hard time finding a social circle. Mass transit here is terrible and so is traffic and parking. You can live well here but not deeply.
- axod 16y ago
  >> "and sometimes dangerous" The number of homeless/crazy people on the streets surprises me when I'm in SF. I know many are probably harmless, but crazy people jumping around, shouting abuse, or acting weird just doesn't make things inviting. Not to mention the beggars at the stop signs. Is there a system in the US for looking after mentally unstable people? eg would they be put into care if they don't have medical insurance?
  - cageface 16y ago
    A very large percentage of the homeless in the U.S. are mentally ill or have substance abuse problems http://helpinghomeless.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/mental-illness-and-homelessness/ http://helpinghomeless.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/mental-illne...
  - anamax 16y ago
    > Is there a system in the US for looking after mentally unstable people? eg would they be put into care if they don't have medical insurance? SF, like most large US cities, has lots of unused shelter and facilities. However, they're voluntary and many people won't volunteer.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    They can't be "put into care" against their will unless they are a proven danger to themselves or others, and many crazy homeless people are too adapted to the streets to successfully be put into care.
- starkfist 16y ago
  I thought like you once. SF was driving me insane. But then I moved back to NYC from San Francisco and realized that art, music and literature is dying out everywhere in the USA. In New York, there's a lot more stuff like ping-pong clubs and designer boutiques and bike paths... but there certainly aren't as many interesting art, literary or music things happening as there were in the 1990s. San Francisco was never really an artistic or intellectual center, it's always just been kind of a weird place. I might be the only person on this forum who moved to SF to go skateboarding, rather than start a tech startup. If you move to SF hoping it will be a cultural mecca you will be disappointed. But if you go with the flow, you might find something you like.I don't like burning man, either. But there's other stuff to do. I have never been happier than when I was skating or riding my bike around the city, or just goofing off. Why do you think there are so many bums there? Why do you think the beats moved there? It's a great city in which to "bum around." It's kind of bad for almost anything else. I view my time spent there as an extended vacation.
  - cageface 16y ago
    You're probably right that this isn't localized to S.F. I have to imagine a capitol of the publishing world like NYC has more literary heft but even there I've heard that life tends toward the superficial. S.F. is a great city to just hang out in. Amazing food, great weather, and a generally laid back attitude make it very pleasant in many ways. I think the .com boom did a lot of damage to the city's culture by driving out everybody that couldn't afford to keep up with the rent increases. I spent a summer here in '92 and it seemed a lot more alive.
    - axod 16y ago
      >> "S.F. is a great city to just hang out in. Amazing food, great weather" Great weather? really? Seems like it's often very windy and cloudy to me. The amount of fog around is just bizarre as well.
      - cageface 16y ago
        The weird thing about S.F. is that the weather can vary tremendously from neighborhood to neighborhood. The Mission can be sunny any day of the year. The ironically named Sunset is almost always fogged in. We also seem to get our seasons backwards here. Summer tends to be cold and foggy but Sep-Dec can be beautiful. It's not exactly San Diego weather here but coming from anywhere that snows it's pretty friendly.
- jey 16y ago
  > little literary, musical, or otherwise artistic culture I think one of the problems is that you've forsaken the people who like to "run around naked and high in the desert"; all the creative types I know love Burning Man. Sure, you're not going to find the tea & crumpets type of art scene in SF, but there's definitely plenty of passionately creative people. There's also a tendency amongst tech people to just socialize with tech people, but I don't really get a kick out of it. You should definitely branch out to non-tech social circles and get out of the Rails/Django/Clojure echo chamber. From your description of the playa it sounds like you've never been out there... you should really try it. No, it's not all "naked and high" people, btw.
- neilk 16y ago
  It all depends who you associate with. If I only hung around with techies / startuppers I think I'd have to shoot myself too. I'll take my "high in the desert" people over your "high in Williamsburg, Brooklyn" people any day. I agree that a lot of Burners are deeply annoying, but the core people who actually make it all happen (or the larger installations and camps) are often incredibly interesting, intellectually broad people, doing it all on a shoestring. If you think you're doing a lot with your life being in a startup you're probably not doing half of what they do in an average week.
  - cageface 16y ago
    Not having actually lived in Brooklyn I can't say for sure but there are a ton of interesting bands coming out of Brooklyn right now, you're in the publishing heart of the world, you've got some of the best art museums on the planet right next door, and you're not going to find better theater anywhere in the U.S. Compared to that the whole art-car, techno, cyberpunkish thing in S.F. just seems so provincial and quaint. I don't doubt that people put a lot of work into it but it just doesn't compel me at all.
    - wooster 16y ago
      If you really like theater, the Berkeley Repertory Theatre is just across the bay. There are a wide variety of other theater venues around the Bay Area. Santa Cruz for small stuff, San Francisco for a huge mix of productions from Broadway shows to weird warehouse stuff, and San Jose, Mountain View, Palo Alto, and Marin all have theater companies.
    - ktf 16y ago
      > there are a ton of interesting bands coming out of Brooklyn right now Not to nitpick, but many of the bands "coming out of Brooklyn right now" are bands that moved there from elsewhere to try to ride the "Brooklyn band = good" wave. It's weird how arbitrary and amorphous these various scenes can be. If you can't find good music coming out of SF, you're probably not looking hard enough. > Compared to that the whole art-car, techno, cyberpunkish thing in S.F. just seems so provincial and quaint. It seems odd (and inaccurate) to sum an entire city's culture up with 3 indistinct generalizations.
- ktf 16y ago
  > there's very little literary, musical, or otherwise artistic culture here and people just don't seem to be very intellectually curious outside of tech I don't have enough hours in the day to go to all the film festivals, concerts, author readings, dance performances, gallery openings, and other similar events that are occurring all the time in SF. If you're looking for people who are interested in things outside of tech, you should start going to some of these events, and meeting people. Join the SF Film Society, for a start! Maybe I'll see you around...
  - starkfist 16y ago
    I had enough time to go to all of those things... SF is not a big place. The scene is not that much better than say, Minneapolis.
    - ktf 16y ago
      > I had enough time to go to all of those things... Sorry, maybe I'm taking you too literally here, but I find that hard to believe. You had time to attend every artistic event in SF, and you just weren't satisfied?
      - starkfist 16y ago
        The last year I lived in San Francisco, I quit being an overworked startup employee and took an easy contracting job. I could leave the office around 4pm most days and made an effort to go to as many art and music things as possible. So you are taking me too literally, but I wasn't exaggerating by much.
    - geebee 16y ago
      I swear I don't mean to be glib here... but doesn't Minneapolis have a particularly vibrant music scene for a city its size? I think you've set a higher bar than a lot of people will realize.
      - starkfist 16y ago
axod 16y ago
We're even getting wifi on the tube in time for the olympics apparently as well as free wifi all over central London... I've only visited SF for days, and stayed in a hotel there for a few days, but never really found my feet there. Like you say, it seemed like it has a lot of bad bits without the good bits being obviously there. Maybe they're hidden away :/ I'm much more at home strolling down University Ave or Castro st though. Relaxed, safe atmosphere with plenty to do.
- ardit33 16y ago
  Really? I live right off Castro st, in Mountain View, and I am in University Ave in PA every other day. Once you spend a weekend on both places, you basically have seen it all. The restaurants are reallyu nice (Castro St. Mountain View being cheaper and more authentic), but appart that there is not much going on. It is very clean looking though, and if you have a family it is a good place. If you are single guy, you'd want to steer clear of them. There is not much going on excitement wise. I guess it is good, b/c you will get so bored that you will just work on your startup. The weather is really nice though. I lived in SF for 3.5 years, and I miss it. A lot more fun in general. There is never a boring moment.
  - axod 16y ago
    >> " Once you spend a weekend on both places, you basically have seen it all." Is that a bad thing, if it has most of what you need? >> "if you have a family it is a good place. If you are single guy, you'd want to steer clear of them." Definitely agree. I'm a family guy though. Perhaps I'm just getting old ;)