7 ms·

I really wonder how much of a demand there is for this. So usually once a year (maybe twice) I fly from New York to Perth. By distance this is one of the longe

by cletus 9y ago

I really wonder how much of a demand there is for this. So usually once a year (maybe twice) I fly from New York to Perth. By distance this is one of the longest journeys. Perth is a few hundred miles from the antipode of NYC. I have the "advantage" that I can fly in pretty much any direction. The two major options for a single stop are via the Middle East or over the Arctic to Hong Kong. There might be other options through say South Korea or Japan but I don't think any airlines fly direct from Perth to these. Oh and I think China Southern can do it via China. Anyway. this amounts to roughly 24 hours (total) in aircraft time. I'm 6'2" and wider than a coach seat so this would be torture. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a premium cabin so it's one of the things I choose to spend money on. This might mean paying 3x as much for a flight. I don't care. Anyway, a big problem with even longer haul flights is the added cost of carrying the fuel you need for those last few thousand miles. I think Qantas estimated the per passenger cost of LHR to PER is about 30-40% higher than making a stop. SYD-JFK is ~10% longer than LHR-PER, which will make the cost what? 60-70% more than going via LAX or DFW. The problem of course too is if your final destination from Sydney isn't London or New York then you need to make a connection anyway. So this is where say the ME3 carriers shine: ultra long routes with a single stop and a lot of options for city pairings. Anyway, I'm sure someone will want these flights. I don't expect any direct NYC to PER flights anytime soon however. :)

lcfcjs 9y ago
This might mean paying 3x as much for a flight. I don't care. Must be nice to have that type of cash.
nl 9y ago
I believe they manage the fuel costs by flying slightly slower (20% maybe from memory?) than normal. I read about the plans a couple of years ago. That still gets there quicker than with a stop. I'd do it. I'm in Adelaide, and I don't like the stop overs to Europe.
- tankenmate 9y ago
  I wouldn't think it would be 20% slower; that would be going from 850km/h down to 680km/h. The big problem isn't so much that it is much slower but in fact the slower speed meaning a higher angle of attack which leads to more drag. At altitude commercial jet liners fly at a set angle of attack to reduce drag, so maybe flying a few percent slower might lead to less fuel usage, but more than that and the increased drag eats away at the savings.
- kpil 9y ago
  22 or 26 hours of flying doesn't really make a difference. If someone reinvented supersonic flight, and gave it a 20.000 km range, then that would be absolutely fantastibulastic! That would be about 3x the range of Concord, so I guess it will never happen. Boom claims to be working on a 40 seat plane with a long range, but I doubt there would be any economy in that.
petecox 9y ago
> if your final destination from Sydney isn't London or New York then you need to make a connection anyway. England is the 'motherland', so is still a popular destination for some and for Brits wanting to visit the colonies. I think the New York route might be harder to fill but I suspect it has more to do with carving out a new market for Qantas, as there is a lot of competition flying to California.
- justinv 9y ago
  "for Brits wanting to visit the colonies" Do people actually talk this way? I live in England and I have never heard anyone refer to going to visit their family/friends/whatever in Australia as "visiting the colonies"
  - mixmastamyk 9y ago
    Sounds like a mild joke to me.
    - fit2rule 9y ago
      Its only a joke if you're on the 'white side'. Australia has local sovereignty, but not international sovereignty = thus, it is still a colony of the British empire: http://www.indymedia.org.au/2010/11/12/australia-is-still-legally-a-colony.html http://www.indymedia.org.au/2010/11/12/australia-is-still-le...
      - jacques_chester 9y ago
        You might like to consult a constitutional lawyer rather than indymedia. The Statue of Westminster and the Australia Acts conclusively separated Britain's sovereignty from Australia's. This is one reason why section 44 has suddenly turned into such a landmine. After the Australia Acts, Britain is considered a foreign power.
        fit2rule 9y ago
cm2187 9y ago
A stopover isn't a big deal to me. A connection with a long wait, having to unpack, go through security, having the potential for delays is a problem.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Why do you need to unpack? I've never had to do this .... I've never been to se Asia though.
  - vinay427 9y ago
    They may have been referring to the process of removing laptops, liquids, etc. from bags for security procedures in some countries.
    - kpil 9y ago
      I've changed flight in Singapore or Bangkok a few times after a really long flight. Had there been no security check it had been nice to take a walk and look at the too expensive wine in the taxfree shops, but the extra inconvenience of queuing for 30 minutes and unsolicitedly getting fingers down the front of your pants is surprisingly irritating when all you really want to do is to take a nap. In one or two cases I had the option to stay in the plane, while they were cleaning, which was not bad.
sundvor 9y ago
As a Norwegian expat living in Melbourne, a single flight to London with a short hop over to Norway would be a dream. The huge stop over in Singapore or wherever is the biggest mental and physical drain. Would absolutely prefer this.
TomK32 9y ago
There's a website to find the antipode to whereever, thanks for making me curious enough. http://furthestcity.com/city.php?ID=NEW_YORK_NY_UNITED_STATES_OF_AMERICA http://furthestcity.com/city.php?ID=NEW_YORK_NY_UNITED_STATE...
- chx 9y ago
  I like https://www.antipodesmap.com/ https://www.antipodesmap.com/ more
SkyMarshal 9y ago
There is definitely demand for major business hub to major business hub routes, the first and business class sections at least will be full. I spent the last two years regularly making flights like this, any chance I'd get I'd take the longer nonstop route. Fwiw, it's what the Boeing 787 was created for - longest possible nonstop routes bypassing hubs.

by cletus 9y ago

lcfcjs 9y ago

This might mean paying 3x as much for a flight. I don't care. Must be nice to have that type of cash.

nl 9y ago

I believe they manage the fuel costs by flying slightly slower (20% maybe from memory?) than normal. I read about the plans a couple of years ago. That still gets there quicker than with a stop. I'd do it. I'm in Adelaide, and I don't like the stop overs to Europe.

tankenmate 9y ago
I wouldn't think it would be 20% slower; that would be going from 850km/h down to 680km/h. The big problem isn't so much that it is much slower but in fact the slower speed meaning a higher angle of attack which leads to more drag. At altitude commercial jet liners fly at a set angle of attack to reduce drag, so maybe flying a few percent slower might lead to less fuel usage, but more than that and the increased drag eats away at the savings.
kpil 9y ago
22 or 26 hours of flying doesn't really make a difference. If someone reinvented supersonic flight, and gave it a 20.000 km range, then that would be absolutely fantastibulastic! That would be about 3x the range of Concord, so I guess it will never happen. Boom claims to be working on a 40 seat plane with a long range, but I doubt there would be any economy in that.

petecox 9y ago

> if your final destination from Sydney isn't London or New York then you need to make a connection anyway. England is the 'motherland', so is still a popular destination for some and for Brits wanting to visit the colonies. I think the New York route might be harder to fill but I suspect it has more to do with carving out a new market for Qantas, as there is a lot of competition flying to California.

justinv 9y ago
"for Brits wanting to visit the colonies" Do people actually talk this way? I live in England and I have never heard anyone refer to going to visit their family/friends/whatever in Australia as "visiting the colonies"
- mixmastamyk 9y ago
  Sounds like a mild joke to me.
  - fit2rule 9y ago
    Its only a joke if you're on the 'white side'. Australia has local sovereignty, but not international sovereignty = thus, it is still a colony of the British empire: http://www.indymedia.org.au/2010/11/12/australia-is-still-legally-a-colony.html http://www.indymedia.org.au/2010/11/12/australia-is-still-le...
    - jacques_chester 9y ago
      You might like to consult a constitutional lawyer rather than indymedia. The Statue of Westminster and the Australia Acts conclusively separated Britain's sovereignty from Australia's. This is one reason why section 44 has suddenly turned into such a landmine. After the Australia Acts, Britain is considered a foreign power.
      - fit2rule 9y ago

cm2187 9y ago

A stopover isn't a big deal to me. A connection with a long wait, having to unpack, go through security, having the potential for delays is a problem.

oh_sigh 9y ago
Why do you need to unpack? I've never had to do this .... I've never been to se Asia though.
- vinay427 9y ago
  They may have been referring to the process of removing laptops, liquids, etc. from bags for security procedures in some countries.
  - kpil 9y ago
    I've changed flight in Singapore or Bangkok a few times after a really long flight. Had there been no security check it had been nice to take a walk and look at the too expensive wine in the taxfree shops, but the extra inconvenience of queuing for 30 minutes and unsolicitedly getting fingers down the front of your pants is surprisingly irritating when all you really want to do is to take a nap. In one or two cases I had the option to stay in the plane, while they were cleaning, which was not bad.

sundvor 9y ago

As a Norwegian expat living in Melbourne, a single flight to London with a short hop over to Norway would be a dream. The huge stop over in Singapore or wherever is the biggest mental and physical drain. Would absolutely prefer this.

TomK32 9y ago

There's a website to find the antipode to whereever, thanks for making me curious enough. http://furthestcity.com/city.php?ID=NEW_YORK_NY_UNITED_STATES_OF_AMERICA http://furthestcity.com/city.php?ID=NEW_YORK_NY_UNITED_STATE...

chx 9y ago
I like https://www.antipodesmap.com/ https://www.antipodesmap.com/ more

SkyMarshal 9y ago

There is definitely demand for major business hub to major business hub routes, the first and business class sections at least will be full. I spent the last two years regularly making flights like this, any chance I'd get I'd take the longer nonstop route. Fwiw, it's what the Boeing 787 was created for - longest possible nonstop routes bypassing hubs.