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My annoyance with Tesla is somewhat related. I don't like that I can't simply buy a Powerwall or solar roof tiles. I would have to hire one of their approved in

My annoyance with Tesla is somewhat related. I don't like that I can't simply buy a Powerwall or solar roof tiles. I would have to hire one of their approved installers, which increases the cost remarkably. I don't know the markup, because you can't get flat materials pricing data from Tesla, or couldn't last time I checked, but I know labor for solar installation and electrical work is quite high. I understand why they do it, but it means that for the segment of the population that enjoys that kind of thing, and knows how (I've done my own solar installations, and helped others, on multiple RVs) I have to use much less awesome components. I wanna play with the tech and save a few thousand dollars, but that's not an option for Tesla solar and Powerwall gear. I also want to use it in ways Tesla won't allow (Powerwall can't be installed in RVs or manufactured housing like a tiny house on wheels, for example, even if one were to design the house around safely doing so).

z3t4 9y ago
Imagine the bad PR you would get when your product kills your customers.
- achamayou 9y ago
  The other car manufacturers seem to cope, it's not particularly obvious why Tesla should be unique in that respect and why they need to lock everything down to such an extent.
  - JoBrad 9y ago
    I've heard way too many Volt-on-fire related jokes to agree, unfortunately. Tesla had a very aggressive response to the Tesla accident a few years back, and still suffered as a result of it. Big retailers like Lowes cultivate a reputation of catering to construction workers while also being approachable to weekend warriors, which insulates them from the downside of product safety issues, somewhat.
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  I can go to Home Depot or Lowe's, right now, and walk out with a breaker box, conduit, a bag of breakers, a couple hundred pounds of copper, and install my own household 220V/150A electric service. Local codes or the electric company may require an electrician to sign off on my work before I grid tie, but the companies who make the stuff aren't going to refuse to sell to me. Nobody seems to think me killing myself by making mistakes with that would be the fault of Home Depot or the manufacturers, and I'm reasonably confident that is more dangerous than installing a battery box (unless Tesla has built an inherently dangerous device, in which case it won't matter who installs it). I can also go to the same store and walk out with a roof-sized pile of roofing tiles. No one will stop me from putting on my own roof. Hell, Tesla sells cars. The single most deadly consumer product, by far, in the world. Admittedly, people have tried to sue them about their autonomous features, but still, cars are really deadly and no one blames manufacturers for those deaths (though, we do, as a nation, impose some safety standards...but, it doesn't stop tens of thousands of deaths every year). Tesla is arguably much better about not killing their customers than some other manufacturers, but they already operate in the most deadly industry (aside from, say, coal or fossil fuels, but the deaths caused by those industries are generally an amorphous statistical blob of health problems rather than distinct deadly events). My point is: Unless Tesla has built a dangerous product, there's no safety-related reason it should be treated differently than other home improvement items that require the same types of skills to safely install them. Electrical and solar power are well-understood by plenty of non-professionals. I do see the appeal of making it turn-key; they're aiming for average home owners, particularly at the time of construction or roof replacement, when there are already contractors involved and a mortgage to pay for everything. A large-scale solar power installation is expensive, and it makes sense for most people to work it into their mortgage. But, it's frustrating for me; when I build a house (and I'm kinda shopping for land now in a casual way), I plan to self-fund it and do a lot of the work myself because I enjoy that sort of thing. There won't be a mortgage, and I won't be paying for contractors to do things I can do myself. Electrical work is well within my comfort zone. So, it's frustrating that when I install solar, it'll have to be the somewhat less attractive panels rather than nice-looking tiles. It's certainly Tesla's right to sell their product however they like. But, I reckon I can complain about it, too.
  - 9y ago

z3t4 9y ago

Imagine the bad PR you would get when your product kills your customers.

achamayou 9y ago
The other car manufacturers seem to cope, it's not particularly obvious why Tesla should be unique in that respect and why they need to lock everything down to such an extent.
- JoBrad 9y ago
  I've heard way too many Volt-on-fire related jokes to agree, unfortunately. Tesla had a very aggressive response to the Tesla accident a few years back, and still suffered as a result of it. Big retailers like Lowes cultivate a reputation of catering to construction workers while also being approachable to weekend warriors, which insulates them from the downside of product safety issues, somewhat.
SwellJoe 9y ago
I can go to Home Depot or Lowe's, right now, and walk out with a breaker box, conduit, a bag of breakers, a couple hundred pounds of copper, and install my own household 220V/150A electric service. Local codes or the electric company may require an electrician to sign off on my work before I grid tie, but the companies who make the stuff aren't going to refuse to sell to me. Nobody seems to think me killing myself by making mistakes with that would be the fault of Home Depot or the manufacturers, and I'm reasonably confident that is more dangerous than installing a battery box (unless Tesla has built an inherently dangerous device, in which case it won't matter who installs it). I can also go to the same store and walk out with a roof-sized pile of roofing tiles. No one will stop me from putting on my own roof. Hell, Tesla sells cars. The single most deadly consumer product, by far, in the world. Admittedly, people have tried to sue them about their autonomous features, but still, cars are really deadly and no one blames manufacturers for those deaths (though, we do, as a nation, impose some safety standards...but, it doesn't stop tens of thousands of deaths every year). Tesla is arguably much better about not killing their customers than some other manufacturers, but they already operate in the most deadly industry (aside from, say, coal or fossil fuels, but the deaths caused by those industries are generally an amorphous statistical blob of health problems rather than distinct deadly events). My point is: Unless Tesla has built a dangerous product, there's no safety-related reason it should be treated differently than other home improvement items that require the same types of skills to safely install them. Electrical and solar power are well-understood by plenty of non-professionals. I do see the appeal of making it turn-key; they're aiming for average home owners, particularly at the time of construction or roof replacement, when there are already contractors involved and a mortgage to pay for everything. A large-scale solar power installation is expensive, and it makes sense for most people to work it into their mortgage. But, it's frustrating for me; when I build a house (and I'm kinda shopping for land now in a casual way), I plan to self-fund it and do a lot of the work myself because I enjoy that sort of thing. There won't be a mortgage, and I won't be paying for contractors to do things I can do myself. Electrical work is well within my comfort zone. So, it's frustrating that when I install solar, it'll have to be the somewhat less attractive panels rather than nice-looking tiles. It's certainly Tesla's right to sell their product however they like. But, I reckon I can complain about it, too.
- 9y ago