6 ms·

Honestly this whole situation is so frustrating as a user. I now have a 2017 MBP and every day I try to hate it a little less but it's hard work. I miss the ol

by cletus 9y ago

Honestly this whole situation is so frustrating as a user. I now have a 2017 MBP and every day I try to hate it a little less but it's hard work. I miss the old keyboard. Touch Bar is gimmicky and I'd be happier without it. Only USB-C is idiotic. No more Magsafe stil kills me. The old trackpad was better. For years I just wanted a better Macbook Air (ie upgraded display and specs). The 13" MBA was about perfect IMHO. Reasonably cheap and a great form factor. Yet even Apple succumbed to the fatal disease of "adding value" by changing a winning formula. Force Touch lack discovery and is terrible (this is particularly the case for the phones). Sadly, the alternative (non-Apple laptops) is just so much worse. I have a Dell XPS 15 and it's fine I guess but it's STILL much worse than MBP/OSX. Why does everything suck?

konceptz 9y ago
I actually enjoy the similarly priced dell laptops with USB-c and the dell dock. I also do hate the touch bar especially when it crashes.
pentae 9y ago
Agree wholreheartedly. I am still savage that I cannot buy the 15" without paying an extra $300 premium for a touch bar that serves to do nothing but constantly annoy me.
- qrbLPHiKpiux 9y ago
  The keyboard annoys me the most.
coldtea 9y ago
For a counter opinion, I could not care less about Magsafe (I thought I would, but I don't miss it). I really do appreciate that I can now hook the MBP into power from any side and port. I also like the USB-C: bought a few $80 total cables for everything (USB-C HDMI, USB-C to hard disk, USB-C to printer etc) and I no longer need any dongles either (just the respective USB-C to X cable, as I would have used a USB-A to X cable before). $80 is not much when one is talking of a $2000 / $3000 laptop. And increasingly new peripherals will come with direct USB-C support anyway. The display and brightness and colors is also killer. And I appreciate the Touch ID very much (1Password, lock screen, payments). That said: new trackpad is a problem for me, because I tend to touch it as I type (since it's bigger). And the touch strip I don't care about. I would prefer if it was individual strip of actual buttons (physical) that would light up with images and be customizable (like the Optimus Prime keyboard).
- gommm 9y ago
  Yes, I'm actually very happy that magsafe is disappearing, never liked it. It tends to fall down when using the laptop on my lap and the only time I've tripped on my cord, my mbp went with it because it managed to somehow pull the cord straight. I haven't bought a new mbp yet because I'm still waiting for 32 gb (I want VMs and it's just faster working locally than using aws to work) My biggest problem with Apple is macOS, it went from a good stable OS back in Snow Leopard to a buggy mess that crashes rather often with broken features (mission control takes more than 20s whenever I use it whereas expose was always fast and responsive).
  - wingworks 9y ago
    I suspect it's something wrong on your end, I have no lag at all with mission control on a 2015 MBP. I do think however that Apple hasn't been innovating much on macOS for years. All the resources seem to go to iOS.
    - gommm 9y ago
      To be fair I'm using a mbp 2013 and I tend to have a lot of windows opened (usually 50-60). It worked perfectly with expose not with mission control.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >I do think however that Apple hasn't been innovating much on macOS for years. They have literally done tons of work. They just haven't disturbed the facade. Heck, in last 3-4 releases there has been a whole new FS, memory compression, transparent internet storage for user files (optimized storage), handoff, system integrity protection and widespread sandboxing, a whole new 3D graphics API (now in its second version, Metal 2), night shift, gatekeeper and path randomization, wide gamut color support, timer coalescing (to save battery), Notification Center, Airplay, Power Nap, etc.
- lobster_johnson 9y ago
  I never tripped over a cable in my life, so for me MagSafe's utility has never been safety, but ease of use — it's just so incredibly easy to plug and unplug. It's also wonderfully easy to share a plug; sitting around a table with a bunch of people, you can see who's fully charged (the green LED, which is gone from the USB-C charger), yank the cable out without them noticing/caring, and plop it into your own MacBook. With USB-C, you can't see if someone's fully charged, and you can't yank it out without disturbing the other person. The USB-C connector is actually super sticky, and you have to use both hands to get it out. To be fair, the difference can be measured in seconds, but it's still a step backwards in convenience. Adding to this: The USB-C cable that Apple ships with is very thick and inflexible, which is also less convenient. I don't know if other power-capable USB-C cables are like that.
andrewjw 9y ago
I'm pretty happy with Thinkpad keyboards :) Some of the more modern ones are thinner, and I haven't tried the ones on the X1 series for instance.
- wpietri 9y ago
  Fellow ThinkPad fan here. I'm using an older ThinkPad (X220t) and would like to upgrade, but I want to try the keyboards before I commit. Has anybody found them anywhere? I called a number of stores in NYC with no luck.
reboog711 9y ago
Try a Surface? The Surface Book is the best laptop I've ever owned. Biggest complaint I see, though, is that it doesn't have USB C yet; which I guess you don't care about.
- nneonneo 9y ago
  The Surface Book has had an absolute _pile_ of firmware issues. I have had two (obtained from Microsoft as prizes) and both have been buggy messes. One just refused to undock about 50% of the time, necessitating a reboot to restore undock functionality. No firmware updates ever arrived to fix it, and Microsoft support was absolutely useless on the matter. I sold the other, and the new owner reported that it often woke up for no reason while closed, resulting in massive battery drain and a warm backpack. Also a known issue with no fix, and Microsoft support apparently didn't help either. (They decided to just "wait it out"; I sold it to them without unboxing it so I didn't know it had issues) Also, touching on the touchscreen while in "laptop" mode was almost as bad as trying to touch the old Surfaces with the touch keyboard - the hinge strength is quite weak and the top is heavy, resulting in a significant amount of wobble. (Cue "it's not supposed to be used like that"). You get good experiences and bad ones, but the Surface Books have been more aggravating than not in my case.
  - reboog711 9y ago
    The Surface Book had a ton of issues on launch; but those were worked out within the first six months. I haven't had a docking / undocking issue in ages. I would expect a Surface Book purchased today to work without all those launch issues.
  - misingnoglic 9y ago
    I had to return two surface books, but the third was pretty good
- gamad 9y ago
  I'm also a big fan of the Surface (and Windows 10, too!). We went from Mac to Windows and I have no regrets. (It was the desktop / high-end that pushed me over. No good "pro" option on the desktop.)
jaxn 9y ago
I went the opposite way when you bought your MBP - I left the Mac after years and switch to a Surface Book. I have a mag-safe-like magnetic power port, it's great. I have 10 hour batter life that is incredibly freeing. I have a dedicated GPU, which just seems to make the fan blow. The keyboard is fine except that silver keys are shit dim light compared to black keys. I also have a touch screen which I use a lot and a stylus that gets used occasionally. The MBP used to be the clear winner for a laptop. Now there is no perfect solution. You aren't wrong that other laptops aren't the old MBP. I don't have the newest one, so I'm not sure if the Surface Book is better or worse, but I'm generally happy in my daily use, but occasionally wish I had a faster and more powerful version of the old Macs. Maybe we are in the same boat. Or maybe I am just getting old.
brongondwana 9y ago
I'm really happy with the Lenovo X1 Carbon 2017 model. The 2014 (rev 2) was horrible, with the touch bar and smart-ass keyboard layout changes that made touch typing a pain. I was also tempted by the XPS, but the badly placed camera was a dealbreaker for the number of teleconferences I do. This thing charges with USB-C, which means I can use the same charger for both my laptop and my Pixel, but it also has two USB-A connectors, so I can still plug my yubikey in for logins, plus HDMI for presentations, a second USB-C for charging my phone or plugging in the VGA adapter, and finally a mini-ethernet (which I have only ever used once to test that it works, I have good wifi everwhere). It has a 4G modem which works fine with a SIM card. The only thing maybe you could claim is lacking is the screen resolution, but the low resolution saves battery and works more nicely with Linux's awful high resolution support. Silver lining. Finally this thing has a decent keyboard with good key travel, which is really lacking in a lot of laptops these days. I'm pretty happy.
lackbeard 9y ago
Everything sucks becauase tech is no longer a niche market for nerds. You're no longer in the target audience... I feel your pain.

by cletus 9y ago

konceptz 9y ago

I actually enjoy the similarly priced dell laptops with USB-c and the dell dock. I also do hate the touch bar especially when it crashes.

pentae 9y ago

Agree wholreheartedly. I am still savage that I cannot buy the 15" without paying an extra $300 premium for a touch bar that serves to do nothing but constantly annoy me.

qrbLPHiKpiux 9y ago
The keyboard annoys me the most.

coldtea 9y ago

For a counter opinion, I could not care less about Magsafe (I thought I would, but I don't miss it). I really do appreciate that I can now hook the MBP into power from any side and port. I also like the USB-C: bought a few $80 total cables for everything (USB-C HDMI, USB-C to hard disk, USB-C to printer etc) and I no longer need any dongles either (just the respective USB-C to X cable, as I would have used a USB-A to X cable before). $80 is not much when one is talking of a $2000 / $3000 laptop. And increasingly new peripherals will come with direct USB-C support anyway. The display and brightness and colors is also killer. And I appreciate the Touch ID very much (1Password, lock screen, payments). That said: new trackpad is a problem for me, because I tend to touch it as I type (since it's bigger). And the touch strip I don't care about. I would prefer if it was individual strip of actual buttons (physical) that would light up with images and be customizable (like the Optimus Prime keyboard).

gommm 9y ago
Yes, I'm actually very happy that magsafe is disappearing, never liked it. It tends to fall down when using the laptop on my lap and the only time I've tripped on my cord, my mbp went with it because it managed to somehow pull the cord straight. I haven't bought a new mbp yet because I'm still waiting for 32 gb (I want VMs and it's just faster working locally than using aws to work) My biggest problem with Apple is macOS, it went from a good stable OS back in Snow Leopard to a buggy mess that crashes rather often with broken features (mission control takes more than 20s whenever I use it whereas expose was always fast and responsive).
- wingworks 9y ago
  I suspect it's something wrong on your end, I have no lag at all with mission control on a 2015 MBP. I do think however that Apple hasn't been innovating much on macOS for years. All the resources seem to go to iOS.
  - gommm 9y ago
    To be fair I'm using a mbp 2013 and I tend to have a lot of windows opened (usually 50-60). It worked perfectly with expose not with mission control.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >I do think however that Apple hasn't been innovating much on macOS for years. They have literally done tons of work. They just haven't disturbed the facade. Heck, in last 3-4 releases there has been a whole new FS, memory compression, transparent internet storage for user files (optimized storage), handoff, system integrity protection and widespread sandboxing, a whole new 3D graphics API (now in its second version, Metal 2), night shift, gatekeeper and path randomization, wide gamut color support, timer coalescing (to save battery), Notification Center, Airplay, Power Nap, etc.
lobster_johnson 9y ago
I never tripped over a cable in my life, so for me MagSafe's utility has never been safety, but ease of use — it's just so incredibly easy to plug and unplug. It's also wonderfully easy to share a plug; sitting around a table with a bunch of people, you can see who's fully charged (the green LED, which is gone from the USB-C charger), yank the cable out without them noticing/caring, and plop it into your own MacBook. With USB-C, you can't see if someone's fully charged, and you can't yank it out without disturbing the other person. The USB-C connector is actually super sticky, and you have to use both hands to get it out. To be fair, the difference can be measured in seconds, but it's still a step backwards in convenience. Adding to this: The USB-C cable that Apple ships with is very thick and inflexible, which is also less convenient. I don't know if other power-capable USB-C cables are like that.

andrewjw 9y ago

I'm pretty happy with Thinkpad keyboards :) Some of the more modern ones are thinner, and I haven't tried the ones on the X1 series for instance.

wpietri 9y ago
Fellow ThinkPad fan here. I'm using an older ThinkPad (X220t) and would like to upgrade, but I want to try the keyboards before I commit. Has anybody found them anywhere? I called a number of stores in NYC with no luck.

reboog711 9y ago

Try a Surface? The Surface Book is the best laptop I've ever owned. Biggest complaint I see, though, is that it doesn't have USB C yet; which I guess you don't care about.

nneonneo 9y ago
The Surface Book has had an absolute _pile_ of firmware issues. I have had two (obtained from Microsoft as prizes) and both have been buggy messes. One just refused to undock about 50% of the time, necessitating a reboot to restore undock functionality. No firmware updates ever arrived to fix it, and Microsoft support was absolutely useless on the matter. I sold the other, and the new owner reported that it often woke up for no reason while closed, resulting in massive battery drain and a warm backpack. Also a known issue with no fix, and Microsoft support apparently didn't help either. (They decided to just "wait it out"; I sold it to them without unboxing it so I didn't know it had issues) Also, touching on the touchscreen while in "laptop" mode was almost as bad as trying to touch the old Surfaces with the touch keyboard - the hinge strength is quite weak and the top is heavy, resulting in a significant amount of wobble. (Cue "it's not supposed to be used like that"). You get good experiences and bad ones, but the Surface Books have been more aggravating than not in my case.
- reboog711 9y ago
  The Surface Book had a ton of issues on launch; but those were worked out within the first six months. I haven't had a docking / undocking issue in ages. I would expect a Surface Book purchased today to work without all those launch issues.
- misingnoglic 9y ago
  I had to return two surface books, but the third was pretty good
gamad 9y ago
I'm also a big fan of the Surface (and Windows 10, too!). We went from Mac to Windows and I have no regrets. (It was the desktop / high-end that pushed me over. No good "pro" option on the desktop.)

jaxn 9y ago

I went the opposite way when you bought your MBP - I left the Mac after years and switch to a Surface Book. I have a mag-safe-like magnetic power port, it's great. I have 10 hour batter life that is incredibly freeing. I have a dedicated GPU, which just seems to make the fan blow. The keyboard is fine except that silver keys are shit dim light compared to black keys. I also have a touch screen which I use a lot and a stylus that gets used occasionally. The MBP used to be the clear winner for a laptop. Now there is no perfect solution. You aren't wrong that other laptops aren't the old MBP. I don't have the newest one, so I'm not sure if the Surface Book is better or worse, but I'm generally happy in my daily use, but occasionally wish I had a faster and more powerful version of the old Macs. Maybe we are in the same boat. Or maybe I am just getting old.

brongondwana 9y ago

I'm really happy with the Lenovo X1 Carbon 2017 model. The 2014 (rev 2) was horrible, with the touch bar and smart-ass keyboard layout changes that made touch typing a pain. I was also tempted by the XPS, but the badly placed camera was a dealbreaker for the number of teleconferences I do. This thing charges with USB-C, which means I can use the same charger for both my laptop and my Pixel, but it also has two USB-A connectors, so I can still plug my yubikey in for logins, plus HDMI for presentations, a second USB-C for charging my phone or plugging in the VGA adapter, and finally a mini-ethernet (which I have only ever used once to test that it works, I have good wifi everwhere). It has a 4G modem which works fine with a SIM card. The only thing maybe you could claim is lacking is the screen resolution, but the low resolution saves battery and works more nicely with Linux's awful high resolution support. Silver lining. Finally this thing has a decent keyboard with good key travel, which is really lacking in a lot of laptops these days. I'm pretty happy.

lackbeard 9y ago

Everything sucks becauase tech is no longer a niche market for nerds. You're no longer in the target audience... I feel your pain.