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Apple got ahead of itself with the touchbar and it's no surprise they have not pushed on it much since release. I sincerely hope they are mature enough to recog

Apple got ahead of itself with the touchbar and it's no surprise they have not pushed on it much since release. I sincerely hope they are mature enough to recognize it was not the right tech and pull it from future laptops.

nkkollaw 9y ago
Really? Why is it not the right tech? I got the version without, but is it universally bad..?
- colechristensen 9y ago
  It feels like a cheesy gimmick, I miss being able to change brightness/volume without looking at the keyboard, and I preferred my escape key to be a key. It's been a few months and I have yet to use it for anything keys didn't already do.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Got it.
Steko 9y ago
> pull it from future laptops. I expect the opposite. They will continue to iterate and fix the issues with the touchbar which many users already like and appreciate. The obvious change to make is the addition of haptic feedback.
- tomxor 9y ago
  >The obvious change to make is the addition of haptic feedback. Yeah they are called physical keys, no need to make a NASA pen... didn't Apple buy out some company making keyboards out of tiny e-ink dipslays, that would actually make sense. Making keys out of a touchscreen when the only reason to look at it is because there are no physical keys on the other hand is ridiculous.
  - cyphar 9y ago
    I agree with your point about physical keys, just a quick aside about: > no need to make a NASA pen The "NASA pen" urban legend (often used to comment on the contrast between American over-spending on innovation and Russian common-sense) is actually a myth. Both NASA and the Soviets used pencil-based technology originally -- NASA used ordinary sharpening-based pencils (later moving to mechanical pencils), while Soviets used more crayon-like "grease pencils". There were flaws with both technologies, and a private American company (Fisher) created a pen they claimed could work in space which was later adopted by both NASA and the Soviets. NASA only paid $4.00 per pen, nowhere near the "millions of dollars" often cited as the cost of development. http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
    - tomxor 9y ago
      Thanks I did not know that, however... In spite of it's truth it is an extremely useful metaphor when trying to make a point about unnecessarily complex over-engineering to no actual benefit to the user. Do you have any alternatives which are not myths? (Sincere question)
      - Judgmentality 9y ago
        The vertical doors on Tesla SUVs. Doors are actually one of the most complicated parts of a car to manufacture and make reliable, and those doors are widely credited with why the shipments were late. In addition to people complaining about their reliability and their absurdly high cost, they provide no real benefit. Supposedly you can park in tighter spaces and get out, however the front doors still open like regular car doors. So assuming the driver also wants to get out, it's pretty fucking useless.
  - rando444 9y ago
    I know you're being facetious, but.. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-n...
  - 9y ago
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  > which many users already like and appreciate. Really? Who? I haven't heard a single opinion on this that's stronger than lukewarm.
  - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
    The DJ that played his track on the MacBook Pro with touch bar at the introduction event seemed happy about it. But scrubbing on the touch bar seems wrong . That is what the touchpad should be for.
abritinthebay 9y ago
I hope not: it’s the single most used new tech on my mbp. It’s useful, better than the useless row of keys that was there before (ok, if you’re using old IDEs they may still be useful), and adds functionality
- sarthakjain 9y ago
  Could you describe how you find it useful?
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    Sure, I use it every day to do small things that, yes many I could have set custom bindings for, now have dedicated space. Also touch screen for volume, brightness, and video scrubbing === better than keys.
pier25 9y ago
I agree with you. Not being able to get a version without the TB was one of the reasons for buying a 2015 model instead.
jest3r1 9y ago
The touch bar will evolve into a touch screen keyboard.
- userbinator 9y ago
  ...and if/when it does, Apple and its fans will praise it as being amazing innovation, forgetting the fact that Acer tried the same thing many years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_Iconia_6120 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_Iconia_6120 As someone who can actually type without looking at the keys, I would never buy a laptop without a real physical keyboard.
- camus 9y ago
  > The touch bar will evolve into a touch screen keyboard. Have you ever tried to type on a touch keyboard without looking at it?
- yborg 9y ago
  God, I hope not.
- notadoc 9y ago
  You ever typed on an iPad or Fire keyboard? Good luck!
  - nilved 9y ago
    You ever typed on an iPhone keyboard? BlackBerry's physical keyboard was far better. It didn't matter.
    - notadoc 9y ago
      Ugh, you are right and that makes me sad. But it works for iPhone thanks to a combination of changes in habit and autocorrect and plenty of typos, whereas no matter how much I have tried I have never made typing work on a tablet.
- bitwize 9y ago
  When I saw the Idiot Bar I thought immediately of the "MacBook Wheel" video from The Onion.
dennyabraham 9y ago
Adding haptics and the ability to make it static (even outside of login sessions) would make it much more friendly to touch-typists. It could also stand to adhere keyboard brightness configuration
foobarian 9y ago
This is what happens without an uncompromising design lead at the helm. One person is probably pushing this feature because it's their baby, and nobody else has enough power to shut it down (though they probably grumble about it).

nkkollaw 9y ago

Really? Why is it not the right tech? I got the version without, but is it universally bad..?

colechristensen 9y ago
It feels like a cheesy gimmick, I miss being able to change brightness/volume without looking at the keyboard, and I preferred my escape key to be a key. It's been a few months and I have yet to use it for anything keys didn't already do.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Got it.

Steko 9y ago

> pull it from future laptops. I expect the opposite. They will continue to iterate and fix the issues with the touchbar which many users already like and appreciate. The obvious change to make is the addition of haptic feedback.

tomxor 9y ago
>The obvious change to make is the addition of haptic feedback. Yeah they are called physical keys, no need to make a NASA pen... didn't Apple buy out some company making keyboards out of tiny e-ink dipslays, that would actually make sense. Making keys out of a touchscreen when the only reason to look at it is because there are no physical keys on the other hand is ridiculous.
- cyphar 9y ago
  I agree with your point about physical keys, just a quick aside about: > no need to make a NASA pen The "NASA pen" urban legend (often used to comment on the contrast between American over-spending on innovation and Russian common-sense) is actually a myth. Both NASA and the Soviets used pencil-based technology originally -- NASA used ordinary sharpening-based pencils (later moving to mechanical pencils), while Soviets used more crayon-like "grease pencils". There were flaws with both technologies, and a private American company (Fisher) created a pen they claimed could work in space which was later adopted by both NASA and the Soviets. NASA only paid $4.00 per pen, nowhere near the "millions of dollars" often cited as the cost of development. http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
  - tomxor 9y ago
    Thanks I did not know that, however... In spite of it's truth it is an extremely useful metaphor when trying to make a point about unnecessarily complex over-engineering to no actual benefit to the user. Do you have any alternatives which are not myths? (Sincere question)
    - Judgmentality 9y ago
      The vertical doors on Tesla SUVs. Doors are actually one of the most complicated parts of a car to manufacture and make reliable, and those doors are widely credited with why the shipments were late. In addition to people complaining about their reliability and their absurdly high cost, they provide no real benefit. Supposedly you can park in tighter spaces and get out, however the front doors still open like regular car doors. So assuming the driver also wants to get out, it's pretty fucking useless.
- rando444 9y ago
  I know you're being facetious, but.. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-n...
- 9y ago
ghostly_s 9y ago
> which many users already like and appreciate. Really? Who? I haven't heard a single opinion on this that's stronger than lukewarm.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
  The DJ that played his track on the MacBook Pro with touch bar at the introduction event seemed happy about it. But scrubbing on the touch bar seems wrong . That is what the touchpad should be for.

abritinthebay 9y ago

I hope not: it’s the single most used new tech on my mbp. It’s useful, better than the useless row of keys that was there before (ok, if you’re using old IDEs they may still be useful), and adds functionality

sarthakjain 9y ago
Could you describe how you find it useful?
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  Sure, I use it every day to do small things that, yes many I could have set custom bindings for, now have dedicated space. Also touch screen for volume, brightness, and video scrubbing === better than keys.

pier25 9y ago

I agree with you. Not being able to get a version without the TB was one of the reasons for buying a 2015 model instead.

jest3r1 9y ago

The touch bar will evolve into a touch screen keyboard.

userbinator 9y ago
...and if/when it does, Apple and its fans will praise it as being amazing innovation, forgetting the fact that Acer tried the same thing many years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_Iconia_6120 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_Iconia_6120 As someone who can actually type without looking at the keys, I would never buy a laptop without a real physical keyboard.
camus 9y ago
> The touch bar will evolve into a touch screen keyboard. Have you ever tried to type on a touch keyboard without looking at it?
yborg 9y ago
God, I hope not.
notadoc 9y ago
You ever typed on an iPad or Fire keyboard? Good luck!
- nilved 9y ago
  You ever typed on an iPhone keyboard? BlackBerry's physical keyboard was far better. It didn't matter.
  - notadoc 9y ago
    Ugh, you are right and that makes me sad. But it works for iPhone thanks to a combination of changes in habit and autocorrect and plenty of typos, whereas no matter how much I have tried I have never made typing work on a tablet.
bitwize 9y ago
When I saw the Idiot Bar I thought immediately of the "MacBook Wheel" video from The Onion.

dennyabraham 9y ago

Adding haptics and the ability to make it static (even outside of login sessions) would make it much more friendly to touch-typists. It could also stand to adhere keyboard brightness configuration

foobarian 9y ago

This is what happens without an uncompromising design lead at the helm. One person is probably pushing this feature because it's their baby, and nobody else has enough power to shut it down (though they probably grumble about it).