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Can you really prove that feeling? because that's far from my experience and far from logical too.. Additionally, this 'fatigue' with front-end is getting a bi

Can you really prove that feeling? because that's far from my experience and far from logical too.. Additionally, this 'fatigue' with front-end is getting a bit over told, I suspect it might be more alienation from developers who hacked jquery scripts together and feel they need to transition to app frameworks (I see so many simple websites and landing pages as react etc now).. where as those sites should just transition to vanilla js + dom.. The thing about inspired frameworks and 'churn' isn't a javascript/front-end thing, it happens everywhere, constantly... how many IOC, DI, ORM frameworks did Java and .NET have..

eterm 9y ago
My perspective is this: A lot of people got a lot of productive work done 'hacking' together jquery and jquery-ui scripts. The result wasn't pretty and was a bit of a maintenance nightmare. They are not only a bit of alienated by having to work with frameworks, but they're expected to be as productive with these frameworks as they were hacking together jquery scripts and snippets, but are still the 1-man or 2-man developers within a wider business. These frameworks are great in a business built around the web such as a SAAS business, but a lot of people are in businesses where their saas part is secondary, or are trying to maintain sites which just aren't the main product of the business. They're pressured by well meaning but often misguided higher-ups to use the latest and greatest and feel the pressure of churn.
- baybal2 9y ago
  >They are not only a bit of alienated by having to work with frameworks, but they're expected to be as productive with these frameworks as they were hacking together jquery scripts and snippets, but are still the 1-man or 2-man developers within a wider business. So so so true... but I can give a correction to the size of the team. I personally witnessed 10 to 45 man teams doing things as simple as a web app with a sole function being "login, enter account number to send money to, enter amount of money to send, and press the button" While 45 is a bit of exaggeration on my side, as it counts team's own accountants, HRs, and 20 something PMs, "change manager" types, and other obscure managers of managers
baybal2 9y ago
>Can you really prove that feeling? because that's far from my experience and far from logical too.. Cyclomatic complexity went up many times. Going over a simple for loop in under 100 kilocycles for client side page generation was considered ok back 10 years ago. Even then, browsers had no problem with that. Compare that with 20 plus layers of deep merges, with closure tricks, with prototype swapping on the fly in a transpiled observer pattern style input event handler - things like that you have in relatively simple SPAs today
- brlewis 9y ago
  I wouldn't describe modern front-end web dev that way at all. Here's how I describe it: https://medium.com/front-end-hacking/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2017-a934b801fbe https://medium.com/front-end-hacking/how-it-feels-to-learn-j...
  - eropple 9y ago
    FWIW, this post is awesome. Thank you for sharing it. I just submitted it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15108546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15108546

eterm 9y ago

My perspective is this: A lot of people got a lot of productive work done 'hacking' together jquery and jquery-ui scripts. The result wasn't pretty and was a bit of a maintenance nightmare. They are not only a bit of alienated by having to work with frameworks, but they're expected to be as productive with these frameworks as they were hacking together jquery scripts and snippets, but are still the 1-man or 2-man developers within a wider business. These frameworks are great in a business built around the web such as a SAAS business, but a lot of people are in businesses where their saas part is secondary, or are trying to maintain sites which just aren't the main product of the business. They're pressured by well meaning but often misguided higher-ups to use the latest and greatest and feel the pressure of churn.

baybal2 9y ago
>They are not only a bit of alienated by having to work with frameworks, but they're expected to be as productive with these frameworks as they were hacking together jquery scripts and snippets, but are still the 1-man or 2-man developers within a wider business. So so so true... but I can give a correction to the size of the team. I personally witnessed 10 to 45 man teams doing things as simple as a web app with a sole function being "login, enter account number to send money to, enter amount of money to send, and press the button" While 45 is a bit of exaggeration on my side, as it counts team's own accountants, HRs, and 20 something PMs, "change manager" types, and other obscure managers of managers

baybal2 9y ago

>Can you really prove that feeling? because that's far from my experience and far from logical too.. Cyclomatic complexity went up many times. Going over a simple for loop in under 100 kilocycles for client side page generation was considered ok back 10 years ago. Even then, browsers had no problem with that. Compare that with 20 plus layers of deep merges, with closure tricks, with prototype swapping on the fly in a transpiled observer pattern style input event handler - things like that you have in relatively simple SPAs today

brlewis 9y ago
I wouldn't describe modern front-end web dev that way at all. Here's how I describe it: https://medium.com/front-end-hacking/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2017-a934b801fbe https://medium.com/front-end-hacking/how-it-feels-to-learn-j...
- eropple 9y ago
  FWIW, this post is awesome. Thank you for sharing it. I just submitted it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15108546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15108546