4 ms·

Electric vehicles can be charged overnight and at off-peak times, so it's reasonable to assume they use a higher-than-average share of low-carbon energy. For e

Electric vehicles can be charged overnight and at off-peak times, so it's reasonable to assume they use a higher-than-average share of low-carbon energy. For example, around 50% of the UK's electricity production is from low-carbon sources (renewables and nuclear). But a much higher percentage of off-peak power is low-carbon. After midnight, close to 100% of the grid is low-carbon because the gas turbines spin down while the wind turbines and nuclear reactors keep running. EVs and smart chargers/smart grids will help us make better use of clean off-peak power! Also, grids will continue to get cleaner over time. An EV purchased today will have lower and lower emissions as it ages, but a combustion vehicle will only get worse!

Havoc 9y ago
Yup. There is so much potential for improvement from just flattening out peaks of what we've got already.
CalChris 9y ago
This. It isn't clear how these CO2/km numbers were derived. Are they a function of average energy generation source mixes or are they taking into consideration when EVs are charged. Average would be more correct for Bitcoin mining. PGE has an EV rate plan [1] which charges a lot less during off peak (midnight to 6am) than during the day. [1] https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-o...
- dmurray 9y ago
  Bitcoin miners would also use electricity at low peak times, unless the cost of hardware dominates the cost of electricity. In practice the mining operations seem to be concentrated near hydro plants in China, where there is an oversupply of carbon neutral electric power.
captainmuon 9y ago
Yeah, but does anybody do that? If I had an electric car, I'd charge it overnight. I don't get different pricing at different times. There has been talk of introducing that for decades now (in Germany), but I'm not sure it is coming soon, nor that I'd like it. Probably, it would become just more expensive when I need it most, without being able to change my usage patterns much.
- gchadwick 9y ago
  In the UK off peak tariffs are available. It's a bit of a pain because it requires two meters but if someone was installing an electric charging point I imagine many would add an economy 7 (the name of the off peak tariff) meter at the same time.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    it requires two meters Why?! Two-rate meters have been around for decades, long before they went digital.
    - gchadwick 9y ago
      Ok, it may require changing to a two rate meter then :) Never actually used an economy 7 tariff myself so I don't know the details but the point is most houses in the UK aren't equipped to have one. However a home-owner choosing to install a charging point for an electric vehicle will probably switch to a suitable metering setup for economy 7 whilst they're at it.
      - Reason077 9y ago
        "Never actually used an economy 7 tariff myself so I don't know the details but the point is most houses in the UK aren't equipped to have one." All homes in Britain will have smart meters installed by 2020: https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/smart-future/about-the-rollout https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/smart-future/about-the-roll... These support Economy 7, as well as whatever other variable tariffs that energy companies dream up in the future.
kzrdude 9y ago
Don't the wind turbines have their lowest production during the night too, on average?
- kzrdude 9y ago
  Apparently not. I was under the impression that winds, being powered by temperature differences and energy input into the weather system from the sun, would calm at night. Apparently the wind producers don't experience anything like that. https://www.llnl.gov/news/power-generation-blowing-wind https://www.llnl.gov/news/power-generation-blowing-wind https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wind-power-turbine-storage-electricity-appliances/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wind-power-turbin...
merb 9y ago
also: energy on the grid can and will be optimized (we see that trend in germany, however it begins really slowly), however forcing car owners to use the new diesel/gasoline car techology will probably not happen. in the long term the ev will be better anyway.
walshemj 9y ago
yes but for non trivial us of ev's you have to upgrade the grid and domestic supply which is not going to be cheap and don't for get that a lot of uk housing stock (flats older houses) does not have of street parking
- davedx 9y ago
  Yep, EV usage will greatly increase electricity demand. There are big infrastructure costs there. Interesting, challenging times ahead.
davedx 9y ago
Exactly. The company I work for is currently developing a smart charging service that deliberately delays charging until rates are lowest and electricity generation is cleanest. One of our primary objectives is to reduce gas peaker usage and shift load to renewables. It also results in payouts for the EV owners of course.

Havoc 9y ago

Yup. There is so much potential for improvement from just flattening out peaks of what we've got already.

CalChris 9y ago

This. It isn't clear how these CO2/km numbers were derived. Are they a function of average energy generation source mixes or are they taking into consideration when EVs are charged. Average would be more correct for Bitcoin mining. PGE has an EV rate plan [1] which charges a lot less during off peak (midnight to 6am) than during the day. [1] https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-o...

dmurray 9y ago
Bitcoin miners would also use electricity at low peak times, unless the cost of hardware dominates the cost of electricity. In practice the mining operations seem to be concentrated near hydro plants in China, where there is an oversupply of carbon neutral electric power.

captainmuon 9y ago

Yeah, but does anybody do that? If I had an electric car, I'd charge it overnight. I don't get different pricing at different times. There has been talk of introducing that for decades now (in Germany), but I'm not sure it is coming soon, nor that I'd like it. Probably, it would become just more expensive when I need it most, without being able to change my usage patterns much.

gchadwick 9y ago
In the UK off peak tariffs are available. It's a bit of a pain because it requires two meters but if someone was installing an electric charging point I imagine many would add an economy 7 (the name of the off peak tariff) meter at the same time.
- icebraining 9y ago
  it requires two meters Why?! Two-rate meters have been around for decades, long before they went digital.
  - gchadwick 9y ago
    Ok, it may require changing to a two rate meter then :) Never actually used an economy 7 tariff myself so I don't know the details but the point is most houses in the UK aren't equipped to have one. However a home-owner choosing to install a charging point for an electric vehicle will probably switch to a suitable metering setup for economy 7 whilst they're at it.
    - Reason077 9y ago
      "Never actually used an economy 7 tariff myself so I don't know the details but the point is most houses in the UK aren't equipped to have one." All homes in Britain will have smart meters installed by 2020: https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/smart-future/about-the-rollout https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/smart-future/about-the-roll... These support Economy 7, as well as whatever other variable tariffs that energy companies dream up in the future.

kzrdude 9y ago

Don't the wind turbines have their lowest production during the night too, on average?

kzrdude 9y ago
Apparently not. I was under the impression that winds, being powered by temperature differences and energy input into the weather system from the sun, would calm at night. Apparently the wind producers don't experience anything like that. https://www.llnl.gov/news/power-generation-blowing-wind https://www.llnl.gov/news/power-generation-blowing-wind https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wind-power-turbine-storage-electricity-appliances/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wind-power-turbin...

merb 9y ago

also: energy on the grid can and will be optimized (we see that trend in germany, however it begins really slowly), however forcing car owners to use the new diesel/gasoline car techology will probably not happen. in the long term the ev will be better anyway.

walshemj 9y ago

yes but for non trivial us of ev's you have to upgrade the grid and domestic supply which is not going to be cheap and don't for get that a lot of uk housing stock (flats older houses) does not have of street parking

davedx 9y ago
Yep, EV usage will greatly increase electricity demand. There are big infrastructure costs there. Interesting, challenging times ahead.

davedx 9y ago

Exactly. The company I work for is currently developing a smart charging service that deliberately delays charging until rates are lowest and electricity generation is cleanest. One of our primary objectives is to reduce gas peaker usage and shift load to renewables. It also results in payouts for the EV owners of course.