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You're trying to explain why you think animals can think. The desire and the ability to explain things, and not thinking per se, is (I guess) what distinguishes

You're trying to explain why you think animals can think. The desire and the ability to explain things, and not thinking per se, is (I guess) what distinguishes humans from animals.

AsyncAwait 9y ago
> The desire and the ability to explain things, and not thinking per se, is (I guess) what distinguishes humans from animals. But how do you know that animals have no desire or ability to explain things to each other, at least amongst their own species? We may not be able to read it, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, we already know that a parent can 'teach' its offspring that something is dangerous, for example among elephants this is even fairly easily observable.
- roceasta 9y ago
  I don't. It's a guess. But I do think our ability to explain things comes not just from our genes but from our culture, and culture is something animals haven't yet developed.
  - AsyncAwait 9y ago
    I appreciate your answer since I find this fascinating; > and culture is something animals haven't yet developed. I know they don't have movies and such, but they do seem to have dialects, activities and behaviours based on various, (including location-based) factors even among the same kind of animals that one could classify that collection as being a 'culture' of theirs, no? I think this mindset of trying to map everything 1:1 to humans might be robbing us of a greater understanding of the universe in general, like looking at planets that have water and an atmosphere of some kind as with probably having life. There is no need for other kinds of life to need water or oxygen per se, so why we seem to be focused almost exclusively on it?
  - sethammons 9y ago
    If you watch some programs on orcas, many scientists describe different pods as having distinct cultures, where culture is a set of intellectual achievements collected and passed down generationally. This comes in the form of different vocalizations and hunting techniques.
  - bumbledraven 9y ago
    The important distinguishing factor is that human culture improves over time (without corresponding changes in DNA).
- cicero 9y ago
  We know that humans go to great lengths to teach our ways of communication to animals, but we are aware of no such initiative from animals to teach humans their means communication. Maybe we are the only species that is interested in inter-species communication, or maybe we are just too stupid to recognize it when it comes from other animals, or maybe such high level intelligence doesn't exist in other species.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Gorillas have apparently never asked a question. They've learned sign language, so this is an interesting distinction. If they had the desire or ability to ask questions, presumably they'd have done so. https://medium.com/@bleistern/why-dont-apes-ask-questions-9f28b162e9fb https://medium.com/@bleistern/why-dont-apes-ask-questions-9f... I'd be interested to know the original sources and the rigor of the tests, though.
  - roceasta 9y ago
    Interesting. >They can’t conceptualize that there could exist a mind of thoughts and feelings outside their own. Presumably they don't have a concept of their own mind either. And this is despite being quite sophisticated and hosting a bunch of memes related to things like tool-use: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10071-011-0403-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10071-011-0403-... Whereas primitive humans painted pictures of themselves on cave walls. Which seems like an early attempt to explain themselves to themselves.

You're trying to explain why you think animals can think. The desire and the ability to explain things, and not thinking per se, is (I guess) what distinguishes humans from animals.

AsyncAwait 9y ago

> The desire and the ability to explain things, and not thinking per se, is (I guess) what distinguishes humans from animals. But how do you know that animals have no desire or ability to explain things to each other, at least amongst their own species? We may not be able to read it, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, we already know that a parent can 'teach' its offspring that something is dangerous, for example among elephants this is even fairly easily observable.

roceasta 9y ago
I don't. It's a guess. But I do think our ability to explain things comes not just from our genes but from our culture, and culture is something animals haven't yet developed.
- AsyncAwait 9y ago
  I appreciate your answer since I find this fascinating; > and culture is something animals haven't yet developed. I know they don't have movies and such, but they do seem to have dialects, activities and behaviours based on various, (including location-based) factors even among the same kind of animals that one could classify that collection as being a 'culture' of theirs, no? I think this mindset of trying to map everything 1:1 to humans might be robbing us of a greater understanding of the universe in general, like looking at planets that have water and an atmosphere of some kind as with probably having life. There is no need for other kinds of life to need water or oxygen per se, so why we seem to be focused almost exclusively on it?
- sethammons 9y ago
  If you watch some programs on orcas, many scientists describe different pods as having distinct cultures, where culture is a set of intellectual achievements collected and passed down generationally. This comes in the form of different vocalizations and hunting techniques.
- bumbledraven 9y ago
  The important distinguishing factor is that human culture improves over time (without corresponding changes in DNA).
cicero 9y ago
We know that humans go to great lengths to teach our ways of communication to animals, but we are aware of no such initiative from animals to teach humans their means communication. Maybe we are the only species that is interested in inter-species communication, or maybe we are just too stupid to recognize it when it comes from other animals, or maybe such high level intelligence doesn't exist in other species.
sillysaurus3 9y ago
Gorillas have apparently never asked a question. They've learned sign language, so this is an interesting distinction. If they had the desire or ability to ask questions, presumably they'd have done so. https://medium.com/@bleistern/why-dont-apes-ask-questions-9f28b162e9fb https://medium.com/@bleistern/why-dont-apes-ask-questions-9f... I'd be interested to know the original sources and the rigor of the tests, though.
- roceasta 9y ago
  Interesting. >They can’t conceptualize that there could exist a mind of thoughts and feelings outside their own. Presumably they don't have a concept of their own mind either. And this is despite being quite sophisticated and hosting a bunch of memes related to things like tool-use: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10071-011-0403-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10071-011-0403-... Whereas primitive humans painted pictures of themselves on cave walls. Which seems like an early attempt to explain themselves to themselves.