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Well, to be a bit crotchety for a moment: Copying someone else's idea but doing it a little smaller or faster isn't exactly revolutionary. At this point, UI l

Well, to be a bit crotchety for a moment: Copying someone else's idea but doing it a little smaller or faster isn't exactly revolutionary. At this point, UI libraries are turning into the JS equivalent of programming languages (everyone is writing one, and few of them are that interesting). If you really want to improve the web, we're gonna need to think a bigger than this...

kbr 9y ago
It might not be revolutionary, but it _is_ an improvement. I just don't like when people say they hate something because they don't want to make decisions. I'd rather have feedback than someone ranting about "just another Javascript framework". Moon has the core features of Vue, but it's started going in a different direction. I'd love any feedback and to hear your thoughts :)
- deleted 9y ago
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- zzalpha 9y ago
  Well, so first of all, it wasn't a rant, it was a joke and a bit of a jab, and you gotta admit these days there's good reason for people to be... uhh... skeptical about yet-another-JS-library. Second, that reaction isn't about not wanting to "make decisions"... that simplifies a rather complex set of thoughts and beliefs that are driven by the often-comical Javascript world, which appears to favour extreme complexity, constant churn and obsolescence, a near-complete absence of standards or best practices, duplication of effort, and fragmentation. Of course, the flipside of this is rapid evolution, competition in a marketplace of ideas, etc, etc. Third, if you don't want people to see this effort as yet-another-UI-framework, it'd probably be a good idea to position the project as something other than "everyone else's good ideas, but smaller and faster" (lightly paraphrasing from the project landing page)!
  - kbr 9y ago
    Yeah, I was just saying my thoughts against the hate towards new JS frameworks in general. While this reaction was a joke, there are tons of people that would have been ranting about another Javascript framework. I am by no means trying to force people to use Moon. Instead, I am trying to show something that you might want to consider if you use and like Vue, as it is smaller and faster. I agree I might need to reposition this project and state a little more. But I've already clarified why I made this in an article I wrote[1]. [1] https://hackernoon.com/introducing-moon-1d44a99635f0 https://hackernoon.com/introducing-moon-1d44a99635f0
    - zzalpha 9y ago
      Nice little write-up! Thanks! And, I should just point out: the original commenter, and myself, may have our... let's call it lack of patience with the JS community. But don't be discouraged by a little bitterness... as you mention in your blog post, there's definitely javascript library fatigue out there, and for good reason. But if the work is good, it'll speak for itself! Everything else is just marketing, and if you're not interested in pushing the project toward broader adoption, just keep on keeping on! Either people will use it or they won't, and either way you'll have learned a lot along the way, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      Was there a specific reason you chose to do a rewrite rather than to improve vue.js?
      - kbr 9y ago
        Yup. Moon is completely different internally than Vue. Submitting a PR to Vue would require a rewrite of Vue itself, and would change a lot of it. Moon's goal isn't to have complete API compatibility with Vue, but instead to have a light alternative with a similar API.
        jacquesm 9y ago
        Fair enough. I take it that you weighed the cost of fragmentation versus the advantage that a rewrite would give you. Even so, it feels to me - as an outsider, without having looked in depth at either code base - that it might have been better to see how far you could have pushed vue.js with respect to your improvements before deciding to roll your own. After all, now you are comparing apples with oranges, many of your improvements likely would have applied to vue.js as well and then the difference between your offering and theirs would have been a lot smaller, possibly small enough not to justify a for and yet another incompatible API. These are hard decisions.

kbr 9y ago

It might not be revolutionary, but it _is_ an improvement. I just don't like when people say they hate something because they don't want to make decisions. I'd rather have feedback than someone ranting about "just another Javascript framework". Moon has the core features of Vue, but it's started going in a different direction. I'd love any feedback and to hear your thoughts :)

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zzalpha 9y ago
Well, so first of all, it wasn't a rant, it was a joke and a bit of a jab, and you gotta admit these days there's good reason for people to be... uhh... skeptical about yet-another-JS-library. Second, that reaction isn't about not wanting to "make decisions"... that simplifies a rather complex set of thoughts and beliefs that are driven by the often-comical Javascript world, which appears to favour extreme complexity, constant churn and obsolescence, a near-complete absence of standards or best practices, duplication of effort, and fragmentation. Of course, the flipside of this is rapid evolution, competition in a marketplace of ideas, etc, etc. Third, if you don't want people to see this effort as yet-another-UI-framework, it'd probably be a good idea to position the project as something other than "everyone else's good ideas, but smaller and faster" (lightly paraphrasing from the project landing page)!
- kbr 9y ago
  Yeah, I was just saying my thoughts against the hate towards new JS frameworks in general. While this reaction was a joke, there are tons of people that would have been ranting about another Javascript framework. I am by no means trying to force people to use Moon. Instead, I am trying to show something that you might want to consider if you use and like Vue, as it is smaller and faster. I agree I might need to reposition this project and state a little more. But I've already clarified why I made this in an article I wrote[1]. [1] https://hackernoon.com/introducing-moon-1d44a99635f0 https://hackernoon.com/introducing-moon-1d44a99635f0
  - zzalpha 9y ago
    Nice little write-up! Thanks! And, I should just point out: the original commenter, and myself, may have our... let's call it lack of patience with the JS community. But don't be discouraged by a little bitterness... as you mention in your blog post, there's definitely javascript library fatigue out there, and for good reason. But if the work is good, it'll speak for itself! Everything else is just marketing, and if you're not interested in pushing the project toward broader adoption, just keep on keeping on! Either people will use it or they won't, and either way you'll have learned a lot along the way, and there's nothing wrong with that.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Was there a specific reason you chose to do a rewrite rather than to improve vue.js?
    - kbr 9y ago
      Yup. Moon is completely different internally than Vue. Submitting a PR to Vue would require a rewrite of Vue itself, and would change a lot of it. Moon's goal isn't to have complete API compatibility with Vue, but instead to have a light alternative with a similar API.
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        Fair enough. I take it that you weighed the cost of fragmentation versus the advantage that a rewrite would give you. Even so, it feels to me - as an outsider, without having looked in depth at either code base - that it might have been better to see how far you could have pushed vue.js with respect to your improvements before deciding to roll your own. After all, now you are comparing apples with oranges, many of your improvements likely would have applied to vue.js as well and then the difference between your offering and theirs would have been a lot smaller, possibly small enough not to justify a for and yet another incompatible API. These are hard decisions.