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As someone who isn't a vegetarian (and who feels guilty eating bacon if I start thinking about it too much), I can't help but to wonder if eating meat will be c

As someone who isn't a vegetarian (and who feels guilty eating bacon if I start thinking about it too much), I can't help but to wonder if eating meat will be considered the "barbaric" practice of this generation for future generations. I'm sure previous generations didn't consider their barbaric practices to be such at the time.

doomslay 9y ago
God I hope not. People are already ridiculously detached from nature, we don't need to go even further away from nature. I think there is a real movement and push back against all this political correctness and endless 'feelings' based discussion thankfully.
gregcrv 9y ago
Some cultures considered the practice of eating animals to be barbaric already more than 2000 years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism
newscracker 9y ago
You might enjoy watching this comedy mockumentary titled "Carnage". [1] It was available on Vimeo for free, but am unable to find the link. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_(2017_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_(2017_film)
cryodesign 9y ago
I think it will be. People of the future will look at this time the same way we look back to when it was accepted to have human slaves. Medicine (and millions of other people) has already proven that we don't need meat to survive. We have plenty of alternatives now. But we are addicted to meat - because it gives us pleasure. But then you have to ask yourself, is it OK for sentient beings to horribly suffer for us[1], so we can experience some pleasure that could be easily achieved by consuming alternative foods[2] and shifting our perception. Consuming meat is also not the best way to efficiently feed the world. Here is what Dr Neil Barnard says about bacon: Power Foods for the Brain (17min) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ONFix_e4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ONFix_e4k [1] Earthlings - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc2oizSsmUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc2oizSsmUs (I challenge you to watch this and not think 'WTF') [2] Beyond Meat - great presentation by Ethan Brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8jfiaLCPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8jfiaLCPY
- wolco 9y ago
  Or we will look back at at vegans and see them as an extreme version of a normal healthy adult. Much the same way we place healthy values on skinny people when taken to the extreme it becomes unhealthy and counter productive. If animals can think and they eat other animals perhaps they will be able to teach us why it may be an acceptable choice.
  - cryodesign 9y ago
    A few things: * Veganism isn't about health[1]. It's about avoiding exploitation of other sentient and intelligent beings and reducing suffering on many levels. * The difference between us and other animals is that we have the ability of critical thinking. We can change our attitude and mind when presented with new information. A lion can't do this (also, a lion needs meat to survive, modern humans don't). There is a great quote by Aaron Swartz[2] and in that vein I encourage you to watch the videos that were posted in this thread - you might be surprised. [1] "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.[...]" [2] “Think deeply about things. Don’t just go along because that’s the way things are or that’s what your friends say. Consider the effects, consider the alternatives, but most importantly, just think.”
    - wolco 9y ago
      What is your take on the morally of eating plants. Plants are living creatures some would say sentient beings. Recent research is showing they feel pain, communicate with other plants. Do they deserve the same protection?
      - cryodesign 9y ago
        Good question. Imagine plants feel pain like other animals and like we do. If our objective is to avoid suffering and environmental damage as much as possible, which one would you choose: 1) Eat animals and plants. Remember the animals you eat also eat plants. This creates maximum suffering and damage. 2) Eat plants only. This creates less suffering and damage than option 1. To answer your question though, if it's scientifically proven that plants are sentient and feel pain like we do (i.e. suffer) then I would only eat what plants produce (e.g. nuts, legumes, apples, etc) rather than the plant itself (e.g. carrots).
pier25 9y ago
I find that being a vegetarian for moral reasons is quite delusional. We, humans, are inflicting much more suffering to flora and fauna by the simple fact of participating in the industrial modern lifestyle. Buying food at the supermarket, using the internet, travelling, AC, and pretty much any activity we can think of. The underlying problem is that to sustain 7+ billion people we need industrialisation which requires massive amounts of resources (energy, land, minerals, etc). The modern lifestyle doesn't help either.
- soared 9y ago
  Well except that meat is a much larger factor in global warming than anything else in our diet. You can't just choose to not participate in modern industrial life, but you can easily choose to not eat meat. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/21/eat-less-meat-vegetarianism-dangerous-global-warming https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/21/eat-less...
  - pier25 9y ago
    The hard truth is that energy consumption is the biggest factor in global warning. The second one is deforestation. The third one is industry. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss...
    - dashundchen 9y ago
      That is not what your link says at all. The second largest category is animal agriculture and forestry at 24% of global GHG emissions, the largest is power at 25%. https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=29892 https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?artic... Animal agriculture is extremely destructive. Forestry being in that category, one of the biggest causes of deforestation is expansion of cattle grazing and feed lands, especially in the Amazon.
      - pier25 9y ago
CuriouslyC 9y ago
If people of the future consider eating meat to be barbaric, I think it will more likely be a response to the fact that meat consumption is not scalable. Think of it like Aesop's fable about the fox and the (presumably sour) grapes. In truth, if we offer animals a good life and harvest them in a compassionate manner, the ethical arguments against eating meat are weak. People also underestimate the capacity for plants to feel. Plants in conventional monoculture farms are much more susceptible to pets and disease. Disease susceptibility is a fairly universal response to sustained stress in animals, so it seems reasonable to me that the conditions we are keeping plants in cause them distress as well. Just because plants "think" on long time-scales using gene regulation (plant biochemistry is incredibly complex) rather than short term activation of neurons doesn't mean their experience is any less salient.
herbst 9y ago
I honestly don't think we will stop eating meat. What I hope is that people will get more and more into more sustainable meat production. I don't see any issue eating local demeter meat which is classes over the EU organic label.

doomslay 9y ago

God I hope not. People are already ridiculously detached from nature, we don't need to go even further away from nature. I think there is a real movement and push back against all this political correctness and endless 'feelings' based discussion thankfully.

gregcrv 9y ago

Some cultures considered the practice of eating animals to be barbaric already more than 2000 years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism

newscracker 9y ago

You might enjoy watching this comedy mockumentary titled "Carnage". [1] It was available on Vimeo for free, but am unable to find the link. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_(2017_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_(2017_film)

cryodesign 9y ago

I think it will be. People of the future will look at this time the same way we look back to when it was accepted to have human slaves. Medicine (and millions of other people) has already proven that we don't need meat to survive. We have plenty of alternatives now. But we are addicted to meat - because it gives us pleasure. But then you have to ask yourself, is it OK for sentient beings to horribly suffer for us[1], so we can experience some pleasure that could be easily achieved by consuming alternative foods[2] and shifting our perception. Consuming meat is also not the best way to efficiently feed the world. Here is what Dr Neil Barnard says about bacon: Power Foods for the Brain (17min) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ONFix_e4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ONFix_e4k [1] Earthlings - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc2oizSsmUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc2oizSsmUs (I challenge you to watch this and not think 'WTF') [2] Beyond Meat - great presentation by Ethan Brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8jfiaLCPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8jfiaLCPY

wolco 9y ago
Or we will look back at at vegans and see them as an extreme version of a normal healthy adult. Much the same way we place healthy values on skinny people when taken to the extreme it becomes unhealthy and counter productive. If animals can think and they eat other animals perhaps they will be able to teach us why it may be an acceptable choice.
- cryodesign 9y ago
  A few things: * Veganism isn't about health[1]. It's about avoiding exploitation of other sentient and intelligent beings and reducing suffering on many levels. * The difference between us and other animals is that we have the ability of critical thinking. We can change our attitude and mind when presented with new information. A lion can't do this (also, a lion needs meat to survive, modern humans don't). There is a great quote by Aaron Swartz[2] and in that vein I encourage you to watch the videos that were posted in this thread - you might be surprised. [1] "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.[...]" [2] “Think deeply about things. Don’t just go along because that’s the way things are or that’s what your friends say. Consider the effects, consider the alternatives, but most importantly, just think.”
  - wolco 9y ago
    What is your take on the morally of eating plants. Plants are living creatures some would say sentient beings. Recent research is showing they feel pain, communicate with other plants. Do they deserve the same protection?
    - cryodesign 9y ago
      Good question. Imagine plants feel pain like other animals and like we do. If our objective is to avoid suffering and environmental damage as much as possible, which one would you choose: 1) Eat animals and plants. Remember the animals you eat also eat plants. This creates maximum suffering and damage. 2) Eat plants only. This creates less suffering and damage than option 1. To answer your question though, if it's scientifically proven that plants are sentient and feel pain like we do (i.e. suffer) then I would only eat what plants produce (e.g. nuts, legumes, apples, etc) rather than the plant itself (e.g. carrots).

pier25 9y ago

I find that being a vegetarian for moral reasons is quite delusional. We, humans, are inflicting much more suffering to flora and fauna by the simple fact of participating in the industrial modern lifestyle. Buying food at the supermarket, using the internet, travelling, AC, and pretty much any activity we can think of. The underlying problem is that to sustain 7+ billion people we need industrialisation which requires massive amounts of resources (energy, land, minerals, etc). The modern lifestyle doesn't help either.

soared 9y ago
Well except that meat is a much larger factor in global warming than anything else in our diet. You can't just choose to not participate in modern industrial life, but you can easily choose to not eat meat. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/21/eat-less-meat-vegetarianism-dangerous-global-warming https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/21/eat-less...
- pier25 9y ago
  The hard truth is that energy consumption is the biggest factor in global warning. The second one is deforestation. The third one is industry. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss...
  - dashundchen 9y ago
    That is not what your link says at all. The second largest category is animal agriculture and forestry at 24% of global GHG emissions, the largest is power at 25%. https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=29892 https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?artic... Animal agriculture is extremely destructive. Forestry being in that category, one of the biggest causes of deforestation is expansion of cattle grazing and feed lands, especially in the Amazon.
    - pier25 9y ago

CuriouslyC 9y ago

If people of the future consider eating meat to be barbaric, I think it will more likely be a response to the fact that meat consumption is not scalable. Think of it like Aesop's fable about the fox and the (presumably sour) grapes. In truth, if we offer animals a good life and harvest them in a compassionate manner, the ethical arguments against eating meat are weak. People also underestimate the capacity for plants to feel. Plants in conventional monoculture farms are much more susceptible to pets and disease. Disease susceptibility is a fairly universal response to sustained stress in animals, so it seems reasonable to me that the conditions we are keeping plants in cause them distress as well. Just because plants "think" on long time-scales using gene regulation (plant biochemistry is incredibly complex) rather than short term activation of neurons doesn't mean their experience is any less salient.

herbst 9y ago

I honestly don't think we will stop eating meat. What I hope is that people will get more and more into more sustainable meat production. I don't see any issue eating local demeter meat which is classes over the EU organic label.