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Guide to where your cofounders should live in the SF Bay
- jey 16y agoDon't forget Berkeley: affordable, interesting, and very easy to get to SF. (Only a 25 min BART ride.) I would never again live in Mountain View because it's too damn boring. Palo Alto might be tolerable.
- rantfoil 16y agoAdded! I agree, Berkeley rocks. But very far from Palo Alto / Sand Hill.
- randomwalker 16y agoI disagree that it is a "1.5 to 2 hour drive" to Silicon Valley. Except for peak times, it is under an hour to say Palo Alto.
- dillydally 16y agoI can get from SOMA to Sand Hill in 40 minutes. I can't imagine Berkeley to Dumbarton Bridge to Palo Alto is much longer.
- miloshh 16y agoI just checked the public transit, and it's about 1.5 hours (BART to Union City, then bus to Palo Alto). So that's also viable, I'd say.
- JMiao 16y agois the crime nearby campus ever an issue for startup offices?
- axod 16y agoBoring? I love Mountain View and Palo Alto. Lovely little towns where you can walk everywhere. I guess it depends what you like doing though.
- abstractbill 16y agoTotally agree. Having lived in London, I personally find San Francisco to have a lot of the downsides of being a "big city", without actually being a big city and so not having enough of the upsides (just to take one example, MUNI/BART is a joke compared to London's tube system). I love Palo Alto and Mountain View though, and would live in either town again in a heartbeat.
- cageface 16y agoExactly. I get blank stares when I make this point around here but S.F. is big enough to be expensive, dirty, and sometimes dangerous but there's very little literary, musical, or otherwise artistic culture here and people just don't seem to be very intellectually curious outside of tech. If you're not into running around naked and high in the desert you'll have a hard time finding a social circle. Mass transit here is terrible and so is traffic and parking. You can live well here but not deeply.
- axod 16y ago>> "and sometimes dangerous" The number of homeless/crazy people on the streets surprises me when I'm in SF. I know many are probably harmless, but crazy people jumping around, shouting abuse, or acting weird just doesn't make things inviting. Not to mention the beggars at the stop signs. Is there a system in the US for looking after mentally unstable people? eg would they be put into care if they don't have medical insurance?
- cageface 16y agoA very large percentage of the homeless in the U.S. are mentally ill or have substance abuse problems http://helpinghomeless.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/mental-illness-and-homelessness/ http://helpinghomeless.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/mental-illne...
- keefe 16y agocompletely agree, if you have a family mountain view might be great but paying a premium to live there with the like 10 shops on castro, mmmmeeeehhh
- davidw 16y agoSoma is "Most yuppie / soulless area to live in SF" ? When I was there, that was the Marina / Cow Hollow. Funny how quickly things change. When I moved down there in 1999, a friend of a friend told me to avoid SOMA if I "didn't like getting stabbed", but I guess that's mostly been gentrified at this point. It was already starting to improve back then.
- rantfoil 16y agoSOMA just has a rather metallic personality. The rest of SF generally has a lot of history and character. SOMA is mainly young urban professionals, many of whom commute to Silicon Valley or peninsula jobs via Caltrain or driving (easy access via 280). Restaurants are on the expensive side, and often overpriced (though there are gems) and I just didn't enjoy living there very much compared to the Mission or even Castro St in Mtn View.
- dillydally 16y agoThis is a very startup centric map. The Marina is still the most yuppie neighborhood, but when professional = "works at a startup," then SOMA makes sense. There are lots of startups around South Park and down into Potrero, even. There are like 10-20 startups working out of Pier 38 alone.
- jamesjyu 16y agoSoma is one of the youngest neighborhoods in SF. Being that, it doesn't have the same neightborhoody feel as say, the mission. It did used to be quite a rough place, but that changed when the baseball stadium was built. Basically, give the soma a chance: there are quite a few gems and great people who hang out here. The area around folsom and 8th (some people call this folsoma) is starting to get more neightborhoody with the addition of many local restaurants, cafes, and bars. Also, as the OP mentioned, soma is basically ground zero when it comes to startups and startup activity in SF.
- jeb 16y agoWhat is the most ghetto part of SF? Like if you had absolutely no fear of getting stabbed by a crackhead girlfriend and your kidneys being harvested if you roll down your windows, where would you live? Also, does one need to show some type of credit report or can one just come in with a bunch of cash and wave it around and get a place?
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- zephjc 16y agoThe Tenderloin I guess, and yeah, most places will probably need a credit check, even the hippie coops.
- jeb 16y agoSo how do foreigners get places to stay at?
- gojomo 16y agoProof of income and strong references, I'd guess, until they have a year or two of domestic credit history.
- hugh3 16y agoI've never had problems renting a place without a credit history.
- shaddi 16y agoI was apartment hunting in Berkeley a few weeks ago and only one of the eight places I looked at wanted to do a credit check.
- gojomo 16y agoWhat part of the country? (Did the locale have rent control?) In any of the cases, were you an overseas immigrant without a rental history? What sort of references did they ask for, and did they verify income in any way? Are you sure they didn't run a credit report anyway (even if there was no history of borrowing on it)? In SF, they tend to ask for a copy of your credit report or enough info (social security number) to run one themselves. And they ask more aggressively when the market is tight -- for example, in 2000, it was wise to bring a printed credit report to the first showing of a vacancy, so your application could be considered in the batch of 10+ people that were applying on the spot. It's not nearly so tight right now.
- charlesju 16y agoI love the "Most yuppie / soulless area to live in SF" aka SoMA. It's also the most practical.
- usaar333 16y agoPretty cool map. One note: I discourage Millbrae. I grew up there and it was on the boring side of things, while still being a tad pricey. My life is (somewhat) more exciting living in northeastern Sunnyvale (near Hacker Dojo), and rent is dirt cheap (as low as $450/person). Also, for the carless, biking is much better in Sunnyvale/Mountain View than Millbrae.
- rantfoil 16y agoI've never lived in Sunnyvale. Where would you recommend? Near downtown? Also agree about Millbrae being boring. I put it there because its kind of a sweet spot due to multiple transit options (both Caltrain and BART). Most startups will be either heads down coding, or heading to meetings. Mainly good if you don't have a car.
- usaar333 16y agomillbrae without an car seems tough. I'm sure it is done, but ultimately it is auto based suburbia. Downtown should be relatively cheap.I personally live in the cherry chase area.
- elai 16y agoHow much does it cost to own a car in san fran? If it's $X/month for gas, insurance and the amortized value of a cheap decent used car, you should just factor that into the rent cost and see if it ends up better.
- stanleydrew 16y agoFactor in the cost of parking as well. I've had a car here in SF and unless you have a garage space ($150-$200 per month) you will need to get a permit for your neighborhood ($75 per year I think). The permit is really cheap but you will spend a not insignificant amount of time searching for available spaces, and your car may have a window or two smashed over the course of the year.
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- Derferman 16y agoAs a current Berkeley student / start-up intern, I would definitely recommend looking into living on the north side of Berkeley. The neighborhood is quiet and the city is only a short (25 min) BART ride away.
- pz 16y agoi think there is a bug in his description of the mission. i think Garry meant to say east of valencia
- rantfoil 16y agoThanks, you're right. Fixed!
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- hi12345 16y agoperfect
- PStamatiou 16y ago+1 for the mission. moved to a studio here 2 months ago (from Atlanta) and love the area. Amazing restaurants everywhere. tons of great coffee shops to work out of. Mission Beach Cafe, Four Barrel Coffee, Ritual Coffee Roasters. Bi-Rite market has amazing sandwiches (and the creamery has great ice cream). Delfina Pizzeria is fantastic. Frjtz has great fries (get the thai chili ketchup!). Limon has some nice bbq chicken appetizers and they know how to make a capirinha. Luna Park has holy-shit-amazing warm goat cheese fondue (and some great smores). Random mediterranean place on 16th & mission does great shwarma for a few bucks. A short walk up to hayes valley has Patxi's pizza, La Boulange and Samovar Tea Lounge, where you'll often find Kevin Rose. However - I'm in a good part of the mission (near dolores) and every other day there is new graffiti on my building, trash everywhere on the streets and broken glass here and there. related: my moving to SF post http://paulstamatiou.com/atlanta-to-san-francisco-moving-cross-country http://paulstamatiou.com/atlanta-to-san-francisco-moving-cro...
- sh1mmer 16y agoCarlos (aristus) and I co-work/hack from cafes in the mission on Wednesdays. Current choice is Sugar Lump at 24th and Byrant. We'd love people to join us.
- il 16y agoI'm planning on moving to SF(probably Mission) to work on my startup in about a month or so. It would be great to connect with others doing something similar, send me an email ilya -at- unviral.com .
- katskatfeva 16y agoI'd be up for a meetup. When's a good time? katskatfeva AT-SIGN yahoo
- shalmanese 16y agosent you an email
- mikeryan 16y agoSlight alternative to the Mission and SOMA are the Potrero Hill/Dogpatch neighborhoods in SF. Technically Dogpatch is a subset of Potrero that runs along third street from about 16th to 23rd, on the East side of 280. Still relatively unknown (Zynga and Digg have figured it out though) more residential and less crime - if you stay on the North side of Potrero Hill (the South side is mostly residential anyway), Dogpatch can be a bit more sketchy. Weather tends to be gorgeous and its actually got fairly easy street parking in most areas.(almost unheard of in SF), and it has a caltrain stop right in the middle of the area. For those looking for something a little less urban and more affordable then the Mission and SOMA this area is quite a gem. About http://www.sfgate.com/neighborhoods/sf/potrerohill/ http://www.sfgate.com/neighborhoods/sf/potrerohill/ Map http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=111291639665197066699.00048b3c0d910bf1a232a http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=111...
- rms 16y agoI came close to signing a lease for a place across the street from the Glen Park BART station before choosing Berkeley. The Glen Park area seems underrated.
- dillydally 16y agoThis maps excludes lots of livable areas in SF like Hayes Valley, Lower Haight, and the Duboce Triangle (where Justin.tv was, many moons ago). If you don't care about access to public transit then I think its totally reasonable to expand that to places like Nob Hill or North Beach. It also excludes all of College Terrace in Palo Alto.
- hawflakes 16y agoNot even a mention of where YouTube grew up? Downtown San Mateo is pretty nice. Thread is there as are a bunch of other smallish startups. Foodwise, there are plenty of options though in my estimation there is one great hot pot place "Little Sheep Mongolian Hot Pot", a shabu-shabu place, what seem to be three(?) izakaya places and several ramen shops, too.
- rantfoil 16y agoAdded. This is a great option.
- adrianscott 16y agoNapster was there too. Pretty quick to get to SF or Palo Alto.
- rdl 16y agoPalo Alto, if you can pick the right property, also has the benefit of metro fiber. If you can find a house or office on the right street (Waverly, a few others; ask at City Hall, the fiber utility guy is awesome), you can pay about $2-3k to get linked in, and then have your own fiber for $600/mo from home/office to PAIX. From there, it's pretty easy to get a wave crossconnect to one of the big datacenters in SF or the Peninsula. For me, I'm willing to pay the extra $1k/mo to rent a house in Palo Alto vs. Mountain View or Menlo Park specifically so I can do this. Having fiber directly to your colo, when you're working on big data, moving virtual machines, etc., is amazing. If you live with cofounders and use it as an office, or live with 3-4 other people and split the cost, it really isn't that bad. Otherwise, I look for Web Pass connected buildings up in SF, or buildings that have IP Networks fiber over PG&E. Those are mainly in SoMA, although some in the east bay around Emeryville/Berkeley/Oakland.
- lsc 16y agooh man. do you have maps or other resources that describe where this sort of thing is available?
- rdl 16y agocentered around university, waverly, and bryant. I know 365 Forest (condo building) would have been about $3k to add, since the fiber was in the basement. There is a utilities guy at city hall who has maps, but I don't have the current ones (I last checked in 2008). When I move back to SFBA next year, I am either getting a house with fiber in PA, or a condo with IP Networks fiber up in 8th/Folsom area of SoMA. 10GE for the win It would be an interesting niche to work with landlords to wire up their properties, set up some colo space, and rent out house + cage/racks + fiber on a quarterly basis to startup teams. I'd much prefer a (really nice) house, shared with team, to a bunch of crappy apartments, a daily commute, and an office-building office. Although at that point, fixed wireless becomes an option too.. http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/depts/utl/news/details.asp?NewsID=467&TargetID=10,11,12 http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/depts/utl/news/details.asp?New...
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- patrickk 16y agoThis is a great map. I'm considering moving from Europe to SV after my work contract expires to do a startup...so really useful. It would be very cool to get a similar map of HN startup locations, IT giants' original garage (YouTube etc), well known web 2.0 startups locations etc....obviously some of these won't be easily available due to founders not willing to divulge their location...would still be cool all the same.
- charliepark 16y agoWhat's the north side of Mission Bay like? I'm not in SF, but "strolling" down Berry on Google Maps, it seems like it's really nice. Anybody on HN live in that area?
- b3b0p 16y agoI like how it's broken out and a nice basic list of what is good and bad for a startup / hacker, but for most people won't it come down to cost? What they can comfortably and reasonably afford? I have never been to California, but I want to check it out someday, possibly give a try as a place to live for a while. I quick googled apartments in Palo Alto because it sounded like the ideal location for me. The cheapest one I saw looked exactly like the place I have now but was > $1000 / month (counter tops, layout, size, etc). I'm currently paying $475 for one of the better 1 br here (Oklahoma). The most expensive I have seen is < $900 here for a 1 br in the newest upscale places with every little bill paid included. So, unless the pay is significantly higher for the same work that I'm making here, I want to know how people deal with the cost of living in the areas provided in this link? Do you live paycheck to paycheck? Do you save much (I'm saving about 2/3 of my paycheck each month)? I wouldn't want to live in a rundown area with holes in the wall (I have lived in such a place) eating only ramen or the cheapest ground beef on discount from the local grocer. Maybe I just should not be looking at Palo Alto. I will check these areas when I take some time off to travel out there and I will be doing that someday, hopefully not too far in the future. I'm grateful to the OP for providing this link. Living out here in OK, having never visited CA/SanFran this provides a better overview of the different parts of the area you often read about on here from people.
- ojbyrne 16y agoThe pay is significantly higher. But probably not enough to make up for the increased rent. Many people share, or live in studios. But the climate is probably also better (warmer in the winter, cooler in the summer), so being cramped is less of an issue.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- tannerburson 16y agoYou should put some contact info in your HN profile. As a fellow OK Hacker, I'm always looking for other interested locals to chat with! (And if you work at the main interworks office, we're in the same town as well).
- ahemphill 16y agoI'm moving to SF in 10 days and I'd like to know the best way to go about securing an apartment. I've been trolling Craigslist for a couple weeks but have not received one response despite in-depth emails. Should I just have my credit report, a couple grand and the ability to drop everything and go look at a place? My friend (who, unfortunately for me, is moving from the Mission to Berkeley) suggested that a lot of people just leave things 'til the last minute. Any insight would be appreciated.
- keefe 16y agoI lived in SF for a few years and I'm about to go back after dealing with some family nonsense, so I've given this some thought. There is huge variability in the SF housing market and great deals tend to go quick. I'd put my stuff in storage and stay at a long term hotel for a few weeks and be really careful about this, after all you're talking about spending 12-20K a year. You can get a decent hotel around the airport for like $60 on hotwire, which is really pretty cheap for SF. http://www.housingmaps.com/ http://www.housingmaps.com/ This is useful. >despite in-depth emails Too long and you'll get no response just like any other CL ad? One random note : some places require a social security card.
- ahemphill 16y agoLuckily I'll be able to crash with the aforementioned friend for about a week — any longer than that and I'll have to hit up acquaintances or dole out for a hotel or a place on Airbnb. As for the Social Security card, hopefully that's not commonly a dealbreaker… Thanks for the advice.
- keefe 16y agoit was a deal breaker for me twice while I was out there and it takes a couple weeks lead time to get a replacement
- shaddi 16y agoJust to echo what keefe said, I successfully apartment hunted a few weeks ago and did what you're planning: crash with a friend for a week and obsessively read Craigslist. Something that helped me get a feel for the area was biking/walking around the general vicinity of where I was wanting to live (Berkeley). A lot of apartments have signs outside stating they're for rent too; in general though, Craigslist is pretty comprehensive. One other point: come with your checkbook and be ready to put down a deposit on the spot. Don't rush your decision of course, but places go /fast/ and you'll want to act quickly to ensure the place you're looking for doesn't get taken.
- mattmaroon 16y ago"amazing startup vibe (literally buzzing)" Either they have an electrical problem or you misused the word "literally".
- tlrobinson 16y agoI'll throw out my vote for the Haight and Hayes Valley in SF, they're pretty laid back, and there's surprising number of tech people. Just ignore all the 18 year old fauxbos in upper Haight, theyre harmless.
- katskatfeva 16y agoHi, I'm bootstrapping, just recently moved to SF. Generally clueless of the goings'on around here other than there's stuff goings'on. What should I check out?
- dnsworks 16y agoThis is sort of silly. You can put your start-up anywhere in San Francisco and be reasonably close to the start-up community. The only real benefit to being in SOMA that I see is that it's easier to stumble to events straight after work like SFBeta, New Tech, or any of the various tech parties that happen within 3 blocks of Moscone (including but not limited to conference related parties). Having lived and worked at 3rd & Folsom for the past year and a half, I've become somewhat tired of spending so much time around the start-up community. All restaurants within 3 blocks of my apartment are filled with people talking about Twitter, constantly. A cool start-up would get office space in the Outer Richmond so you can hike around Land's End every day before you start working, or maybe up in Nob Hill so you're essentially forcing your employees to use public transit some part of the day, giving them that 15 minutes of zen before work.
- neilk 16y agoI moved to the Inner Richmond (sort of by accident, long story) and I'm surprised at how great the neighborhood is. It may be better just for living, but I think it could be practical for a penny-pinching startup too. - Much cheaper rents - Services: lots of restaurants, especially Asian, many open very late (you have lots of options even from midnight to 3AM), bookstores, bars. - If you pick your location properly (close to California or Geary, and near certain stops) you can catch express buses to and from downtown at peak hours. 20-25 min to a BART station or SOMA. Off-peak it's more like 30-40 min. - Unlike SOMA, my cell phone works here ;) - Downsides: no techie neighbors, except Archive.org who recently took over the old Christian Science building on Park Presidio & Clement. Just generally, the place feels like a real neighborhood rather than some sort of Potemkin village constructed for yuppies or hipsters. That's important to me, anyway.
- geebee 16y agoI lived in the inner richmond while I was working down the peninsula. I agree with everything you've said about the neighborhood - a lot of good bars, inexpensive restaurants, quick access to downtown on express buses, cheaper rents. Huge downside: very difficult to get south on the freeways. There's no clear path, so you have to fight your way through city traffic. At rush hour, this can easily add 25 aggravating minutes to your commute (and add in an extra 10-15 minutes to find parking in the inner richmond). Really, it's a lot easier to live in the city and work south from the south-central neighborhoods (sunnyside, glen park, mission terrace, bernal). Ultimately, I'd say that if you work downtown and only need to go to the valley now and then, the inner richmond is a great pick. But if you're in a daily commute type situation going south, I'd avoid it.
- ardit33 16y agoI agree. Lived close to the Inner Richmond (Laurel Heights), and I loved the neighborhood. The starbucks at the Laurel Village is open 24hr, and always full! It is a very nice place if you want to hack at midnight, and get some caffeine. You can also run all the way to the Marina/Chrissy fields if you are feeling for a long and hilly run, or just run to Golden Gate Park for a more flat one. The only downside is the weather. Inner richmond gets some good amount of fog/wind (not as bad as outter richmond, or sunset), but still it is significant. I moved to mountain view now, and I miss it :(
- paradox95 16y agoI will go out on a limb here and say you live in Berkeley. The description should read "Recommended for foodie hackers who don't mind hippies and homeless."
- cloudkj 16y agoBerkeley all the way. North side of campus is quiet and cheap, and I'm sure you can get rent down to the $700s if you share a house/apartment. It's also close to all the engineering buildings, so any interns you want to hire will be within shouting distance. South side has more (cheap) food options though, but it's also less quiet and more messy (Telegraph, etc).
- starkfist 16y agoI lived in Berkeley for a year. The main problem with Berkeley is that if you work in Silicon Valley, the commute truly sucks.
- rms 16y agoAnyone looking for a place to stay, send me an email. There is an extra room available in my 5BR house in North Berkeley, available right now. ~$750/month +utilities. Live with hacker types, and... me. If you're interested, send me an email and tell me about yourself, what you're looking for in a housing situation, etc.
- a4agarwal 16y agoThe funny thing here is that I'm Garry's cofounder, and I don't live in any of the neighborhoods he recommends. Maybe he's trying to tell me to move :) When Garry and I moved to SF to start Posterous, we moved to SOMA since apartments are abundant and it's startup central. But I found little value in being near other companies. What I did find was a lack of food and culture. Posterous first got offices in North Beach. I really LOVE North Beach. There's amazing food and it's a beautiful part of town. Plus Jam Legend is there. +1 for the Mission. We love our new offices. Much cheaper than anywhere else in the city, most people can walk to bike to work, tons of great food, near Bart. We couldn't ask for much more. However, one point of disagreement with Garry's map: you can't simply write off everything north of Market. Sometimes it seems like people south of market (SOMA and Mission) don't cross north as much as they should. There's a lot of city up there! San Francisco is one of the greatest cities in the world. If you decide to base your company here, don't optimize to be close to Twitter. Optimize to be in a vibrant neighborhood with great food and great culture. Believe me, even north of market, you will have no problem immersing yourself in startup culture and surrounding yourself with more tech entrepreneurs than you can handle.
- ajg1977 16y ago+1 for North Beach :) It seems to have a rep for being pricey, but there are many areas of North Beach/Russian Hill that are no more expensive than the nicer parts of SOMA. I also really wouldn't recommend to anyone living around Market St between 10th and 6th. Really not a nice area.
- dnsworks 16y agoI have to agree with you on this. I've been in SF for a decade, and SOMA for the past year and a half. SOMA is pretty abysmal, and it's not really San Francisco. It's sort of what you would expect if Palo Alto regurgitated all over San Francisco. My roommate & I are currently on the hunt for an apartment in Nob Hill or North Beach.
- tholex 16y agoHere's a sweet mashup, was posted to Netted yesterday: http://nabewise.com/sf/nabefinder http://nabewise.com/sf/nabefinder
- hprof1 16y agoWhere Live Sergei Brin ?
- hprof1 16y agoin google