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The German automotive industry has a very aggressive culture. Our (German) managers put enormous pressure on us to do whatever it took to win deals. I can clear

The German automotive industry has a very aggressive culture. Our (German) managers put enormous pressure on us to do whatever it took to win deals. I can clearly remember watching one of our engineering managers turning a very unhealthy shade of green (~= #d2dbc9) as her boss turned the metaphorical screws to pressure her to win our segment's first big deal -- Ironically with VW as the customer. Shamefully, I stayed silent as I watched my colleagues lie through their teeth to the customer: claiming, for example, that a range of functions were already mature and in series production when in reality they were little more than vapourware at that point. I have worked for enough startups to understand the concept of "fake it 'till you make it" -- but there are limits. In particular, the organisation needs to be prepared to follow through and make good on promises made -- or come clean when it becomes apparent that something cannot be done. One needs to be especially careful when we are dealing with safety-involved automotive autonomy functionality where the consequences of hastily engineered and inadequately tested algorithms can sometimes be serious. I can well remember getting the distinct impression that the engineering team for these early products were essentially being set up as "fall guys" -- we took tremendous risks to win that early business, but it was clear that we would be very much isolated and alone when or if any of the potential downsides were realised.

jacquesm 9y ago
> I stayed silent as I watched my colleagues lie through their teeth to the customer: claiming, for example, that a range of functions were already mature and in series production when in reality they were little more than vapourware at that point. I worked for a guy like that. When I finally decided to call it quits he got physical (chased me through the company premises with an iron bar, not kidding). Nowadays I would tell someone like that to fuck off at the first sign of such behavior, when I was young I could still be bullied. The frustrating part of all this is that I did some of my best work for this asshole, simply because he'd promise the impossible to the customers and would then rely on me to get his ass out of the fire, which I inevitably found a way to do. Even so, it wore me out to the point where I had serious physical side effects from the stress and it messed up a lot of my private relationships. After that I took it easy and ran a start-up of my own. It seemed like a vacation in comparison and only became stressful when it took off in a manner that we had never foreseen. Still, the stress levels never even approached what happened in those few years at that earlier company.
- trapperkeeper74 9y ago
  As a consultant, I've seen these sorts of environments over and over... either as dying companies or companies struggling to compete at risk of dying. Any sort of business that isn't defensible, high necessity, timeless, cost-controlled and managed well has an ass-kickability factor. Plus, too many businesses engage in restaurant-grade commodification, internal political satisfaction and ego competion instead of intelligent leadership to customer love, product agility and profit.
  - dboreham 9y ago
    Great post. As a consultant I've seen my share of shady stuff and plenty of privacy violations, tos violations and questionable security practice. Untill I see something actually illegal (hasn't happened yet) I have a policy of documenting what I see in writing to the management, along with why I think it is innapropriate or in need of fixing, and calling it good at that point.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      What would you do if you did see something actually illegal? Asking for a friend.
      - mjevans 9y ago
        If it's actually illegal gather the evidence a prosecutor might need and use some method of whistle blowing. If your employer is a government you might end up a Snowden or worse though...
- indigochill 9y ago
  >he'd promise the impossible to the customers and would then rely on me to get his ass out of the fire, which I inevitably found a way to do I think sometimes about this relationship between assholes and engineers. On one hand it's entirely manipulative and destructive to the engineer on multiple levels. On the other hand it has a track record of leading to achievements engineers probably wouldn't even attempt otherwise (or of the task actually being impossible). But looking at the positive outcomes, how do we get those achievements without assholes exploiting engineers? The sort of achievements that a reasonable engineer wouldn't even attempt because the demands seem unrealistic?
jo67 9y ago
But I am sure she got promoted and is now giving talks at B schools and on TED stages to young minds on how to make it.
nebabyte 9y ago
> managers turning a very unhealthy shade of green (~= #d2dbc9) I love engineers. Though that said, that does sound like a very harsh situation to be in.
valuearb 9y ago
Fake it till you make it is fine if the faking part is selling the story of what you are doing and why it's going to be so great. If other parties assume you are farther along than you are, that's fine. But actually lying to them isn't. I view FITYMI as more as a positive confidence building and projecting practice. When it goes on to deception, either self-deception or deceiving employees, partners, customers or investors it's corrosively bad. Sure, lying to one customer might get you a deal, but then you have to perform on that deal. And maybe you do, this time. But that just sucks you into doing it again and again and over time your organization is going to get known as liars who can't meet commitments.

jacquesm 9y ago

> I stayed silent as I watched my colleagues lie through their teeth to the customer: claiming, for example, that a range of functions were already mature and in series production when in reality they were little more than vapourware at that point. I worked for a guy like that. When I finally decided to call it quits he got physical (chased me through the company premises with an iron bar, not kidding). Nowadays I would tell someone like that to fuck off at the first sign of such behavior, when I was young I could still be bullied. The frustrating part of all this is that I did some of my best work for this asshole, simply because he'd promise the impossible to the customers and would then rely on me to get his ass out of the fire, which I inevitably found a way to do. Even so, it wore me out to the point where I had serious physical side effects from the stress and it messed up a lot of my private relationships. After that I took it easy and ran a start-up of my own. It seemed like a vacation in comparison and only became stressful when it took off in a manner that we had never foreseen. Still, the stress levels never even approached what happened in those few years at that earlier company.

trapperkeeper74 9y ago
As a consultant, I've seen these sorts of environments over and over... either as dying companies or companies struggling to compete at risk of dying. Any sort of business that isn't defensible, high necessity, timeless, cost-controlled and managed well has an ass-kickability factor. Plus, too many businesses engage in restaurant-grade commodification, internal political satisfaction and ego competion instead of intelligent leadership to customer love, product agility and profit.
- dboreham 9y ago
  Great post. As a consultant I've seen my share of shady stuff and plenty of privacy violations, tos violations and questionable security practice. Untill I see something actually illegal (hasn't happened yet) I have a policy of documenting what I see in writing to the management, along with why I think it is innapropriate or in need of fixing, and calling it good at that point.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    What would you do if you did see something actually illegal? Asking for a friend.
    - mjevans 9y ago
      If it's actually illegal gather the evidence a prosecutor might need and use some method of whistle blowing. If your employer is a government you might end up a Snowden or worse though...
indigochill 9y ago
>he'd promise the impossible to the customers and would then rely on me to get his ass out of the fire, which I inevitably found a way to do I think sometimes about this relationship between assholes and engineers. On one hand it's entirely manipulative and destructive to the engineer on multiple levels. On the other hand it has a track record of leading to achievements engineers probably wouldn't even attempt otherwise (or of the task actually being impossible). But looking at the positive outcomes, how do we get those achievements without assholes exploiting engineers? The sort of achievements that a reasonable engineer wouldn't even attempt because the demands seem unrealistic?

jo67 9y ago

But I am sure she got promoted and is now giving talks at B schools and on TED stages to young minds on how to make it.

nebabyte 9y ago

> managers turning a very unhealthy shade of green (~= #d2dbc9) I love engineers. Though that said, that does sound like a very harsh situation to be in.

valuearb 9y ago

Fake it till you make it is fine if the faking part is selling the story of what you are doing and why it's going to be so great. If other parties assume you are farther along than you are, that's fine. But actually lying to them isn't. I view FITYMI as more as a positive confidence building and projecting practice. When it goes on to deception, either self-deception or deceiving employees, partners, customers or investors it's corrosively bad. Sure, lying to one customer might get you a deal, but then you have to perform on that deal. And maybe you do, this time. But that just sucks you into doing it again and again and over time your organization is going to get known as liars who can't meet commitments.