4 ms·

This all seems to be an expression of the zeitgeist. Popular perceptions shift. Things get accomplished democratically (or through court fiat without too much b

by ci5er 9y ago

This all seems to be an expression of the zeitgeist. Popular perceptions shift. Things get accomplished democratically (or through court fiat without too much blow-back) and protesters protest, because, you know, man, that's what they do. Other than creating some photo fodder for the National Geographic 2100 edition of the natives, I'm not sure that protests do anything more than pound the dirt on things that are already top-of-soul to the public. In other words: Maybe minds are not changed. It seems to me, as I observe it, the after effect is that they are hardened and protests are actively harmful in that regard. I'd like to hear your counter-x on that.

ebola1717 9y ago
I'm confused why you think protests aren't a huge part of all those zeitgeist shifts. Even today, look at BlackLivesMatter: people are talking about police brutality and prison reform now - that was not even close to being a mainstream topic 10 years ago. People didn't just magically change their mind overnight.
wpietri 9y ago
My counter-example is me. I was pretty ignorant about the US's long history of structural racism before Ferguson. But when that blew up, I was surprised. Clearly, there was something I didn't understand going on. I started following a lot more African-American voices on Twitter (and do to this day). I ended up reading more about the history, both distant and recent. I dug into the economics of it. [1] But mainly, I listened to non-white reactions to current events. My initial reaction was often denial. "It can't be that bad!" And that's easy to say when you have a small n. But as the n gets larger, I had to give that denial up. What I wanted to believe about America was contradicted by the facts. I'm sure some people do bunker down in their denial rather than taking time to hear out the protesters. But I suspect those are the people who wouldn't have changed their minds regardless. [1] E.g., https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/7/15929196/police-fines-study-racism https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/7/15929196/police-fine... or http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 or https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-cas...
skybrian 9y ago
I tend to be more convinced by good writing and reporting than by the protests themselves, but why do those reporters get assigned and why are all those essays getting written and published and read? Making the national news matters.

by ci5er 9y ago

ebola1717 9y ago

I'm confused why you think protests aren't a huge part of all those zeitgeist shifts. Even today, look at BlackLivesMatter: people are talking about police brutality and prison reform now - that was not even close to being a mainstream topic 10 years ago. People didn't just magically change their mind overnight.

wpietri 9y ago

My counter-example is me. I was pretty ignorant about the US's long history of structural racism before Ferguson. But when that blew up, I was surprised. Clearly, there was something I didn't understand going on. I started following a lot more African-American voices on Twitter (and do to this day). I ended up reading more about the history, both distant and recent. I dug into the economics of it. [1] But mainly, I listened to non-white reactions to current events. My initial reaction was often denial. "It can't be that bad!" And that's easy to say when you have a small n. But as the n gets larger, I had to give that denial up. What I wanted to believe about America was contradicted by the facts. I'm sure some people do bunker down in their denial rather than taking time to hear out the protesters. But I suspect those are the people who wouldn't have changed their minds regardless. [1] E.g., https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/7/15929196/police-fines-study-racism https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/7/15929196/police-fine... or http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 or https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-cas...

skybrian 9y ago

I tend to be more convinced by good writing and reporting than by the protests themselves, but why do those reporters get assigned and why are all those essays getting written and published and read? Making the national news matters.