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From an outsider's point of view, the fork seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to get the two sides out of each other's hair. The fraction of the commun

From an outsider's point of view, the fork seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to get the two sides out of each other's hair. The fraction of the community that prefers to develop social structures gets to do their thing in peace and come up with the best system of rules to promote inclusivity. The fraction of the community that prefers to develop in c++ and js gets to do their thing in peace and write code to make a good piece of software better. Edit: better phrasing.

steveklabnik 9y ago
I think this is a bit of a false dichotomy; the idea is that caring about inclusivity also leads to better code, and that "only caring about the code" leads to a local, rather than global maximum for quality.
- tetromino_ 9y ago
  Sure, caring only about one or the other is absurd. In real life, both are needed, but there is a question about the order of priorities. Do you care about inclusivity to the extent that it is foreseeable, over the life of the project, to help build up the strongest possible team that works together civilly and productively and creates the best code? Or do you care about inclusivity as a fundamental value in your moral system, and your goal is effecting social change - creating some quality code as a side effect is just a cherry on top?
  - wolco 9y ago
    The people who want inclusivity are not being inclusive. Part of a culture of inclusivity means including people who have opinions that are different from the group.
    - devmunchies 9y ago
      From the words of Vagg himself regarding said claims of inclusivity: "the strong-arm tactics being deployed with the goal of having me voluntarily resign, or my eventual removal from this organisation are not the behavior of a healthy, productive, or inclusive community" https://medium.com/@rvagg/the-truth-about-rod-vagg-f063f6a53557 https://medium.com/@rvagg/the-truth-about-rod-vagg-f063f6a53...
devmunchies 9y ago
> come up with the best system of rules to promote inclusivity The opposite argument could be made that they want an environment where they can exclude those who have different opinions. I'm not trying to be inflammatory; I know this is a sensitive topic, but I think trying to understand both sides is necessary if inclusivity is a group tenant.

steveklabnik 9y ago

I think this is a bit of a false dichotomy; the idea is that caring about inclusivity also leads to better code, and that "only caring about the code" leads to a local, rather than global maximum for quality.

tetromino_ 9y ago
Sure, caring only about one or the other is absurd. In real life, both are needed, but there is a question about the order of priorities. Do you care about inclusivity to the extent that it is foreseeable, over the life of the project, to help build up the strongest possible team that works together civilly and productively and creates the best code? Or do you care about inclusivity as a fundamental value in your moral system, and your goal is effecting social change - creating some quality code as a side effect is just a cherry on top?
- wolco 9y ago
  The people who want inclusivity are not being inclusive. Part of a culture of inclusivity means including people who have opinions that are different from the group.
  - devmunchies 9y ago
    From the words of Vagg himself regarding said claims of inclusivity: "the strong-arm tactics being deployed with the goal of having me voluntarily resign, or my eventual removal from this organisation are not the behavior of a healthy, productive, or inclusive community" https://medium.com/@rvagg/the-truth-about-rod-vagg-f063f6a53557 https://medium.com/@rvagg/the-truth-about-rod-vagg-f063f6a53...

devmunchies 9y ago

> come up with the best system of rules to promote inclusivity The opposite argument could be made that they want an environment where they can exclude those who have different opinions. I'm not trying to be inflammatory; I know this is a sensitive topic, but I think trying to understand both sides is necessary if inclusivity is a group tenant.