6 ms·

If they are German citizens, then the German constitution prevents the state from extraditing them (to a non-EU country). https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg

If they are German citizens, then the German constitution prevents the state from extraditing them (to a non-EU country). https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_16.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_16.html

vinay427 9y ago
It's strange to me that many countries sign "bilateral" extradition treaties with Germany or other countries with similar policies such as Brazil.
- leipert 9y ago
  Well. Is there any case where any western country did extradite their own citizen for non-spionage, non-military, non-war and non-capital crime? I hope not. I certainly do not approve of the scam and deception VW did (and possibly other automobile manufacturers?), but I think I do not approve extraditing citizens of your own country for some non-capital crime. Or even some capital crimes for that matter. I (and most of the other Germans and EU citizens [1]) oppose death penalties. So extraditing someone to the US, which could result in death penalty if someone committed a murder, would be a really big ethical and/or diplomatic issue. [1]: http://www.eidhr.eu/highlights/death-penalty http://www.eidhr.eu/highlights/death-penalty
  - jburgess777 9y ago
    There are several examples where the US has successfully extradited people from the UK on charges related to financial crimes: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/british-trader-pleads-guilty-to-wire-after-us-extradition https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/british-trad... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NatWest_Three https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NatWest_Three The US doesn't always gets what it wants, for example with Gary McKinnon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19957138 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19957138
    - leipert 9y ago
      Interesting. They served an initial time in the US and then the rest in the UK. I do not know how to feel about such high-profile fraud cases by banks and companies. Yes, someone should pay their debt, but maybe work on some arrangement across borders? I do not know, prosecute them together and let them serve in their home country. Cross border legal issues seem to be hard problem, especially between common law systems (UK, US) and civil law systems (almost all of Europe).
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    Fair enough on the death penalty, but I don't see how that's relevant for any other crimes.
    - MrQuincle 9y ago
      It's already hard to understand the culture in a country. I see also the difficulty of handling administrative matters for my American wife, from taxes to mortgage contracts. Everything of course in a second language. Even people's gestures or their facial expressions are different. To have to navigate the juridicial system in another country is a huge disadvantage. You will make errors which a native will never make. You will not know about options that are very clear to long term citizens. Etc. Etc. All in all, whatever the crime, you would like to have everybody the same chance in your juridicial system. Foreigners will have a disadvantage however.
      - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        > To have to navigate the juridicial system in another country is a huge disadvantage. You will make errors which a native will never make. You will not know about options that are very clear to long term citizens. Etc. Etc. All of that is the lawyers' job, not the defendant's, and these guys will be able to hire very good local lawyers. No judicial system composed of humans can ever be perfectly fair and free of bias, but that doesn't mean we should let criminals go free.
    - tripzilch 9y ago
      because american prisons are shit to the point that prison rape is somehow a funny meme and joked about on tv, default sentences are ridiculously inflated, and people openly admit that you won't get justice unless you have money.
- rbehrends 9y ago
  America does not have to extradite its own nationals to Germany, either. From the US-German extradition treaty: Article 7 EXTRADITION OF NATIONALS (1) Neither of the Contracting Parties shall be bound to extradite its own nationals. The competent executive authority of the Requested State, however, shall have the power to grant the extradition of its own nationals if, in its discretion, this is deemed proper to do and provided the law of the Requested State does not so preclude. In fact, Germany has quite a few outstanding arrest warrants against US citizens, too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jan/31/usa.germany https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jan/31/usa.germany

vinay427 9y ago

It's strange to me that many countries sign "bilateral" extradition treaties with Germany or other countries with similar policies such as Brazil.

leipert 9y ago
Well. Is there any case where any western country did extradite their own citizen for non-spionage, non-military, non-war and non-capital crime? I hope not. I certainly do not approve of the scam and deception VW did (and possibly other automobile manufacturers?), but I think I do not approve extraditing citizens of your own country for some non-capital crime. Or even some capital crimes for that matter. I (and most of the other Germans and EU citizens [1]) oppose death penalties. So extraditing someone to the US, which could result in death penalty if someone committed a murder, would be a really big ethical and/or diplomatic issue. [1]: http://www.eidhr.eu/highlights/death-penalty http://www.eidhr.eu/highlights/death-penalty
- jburgess777 9y ago
  There are several examples where the US has successfully extradited people from the UK on charges related to financial crimes: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/british-trader-pleads-guilty-to-wire-after-us-extradition https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/british-trad... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NatWest_Three https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NatWest_Three The US doesn't always gets what it wants, for example with Gary McKinnon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19957138 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19957138
  - leipert 9y ago
    Interesting. They served an initial time in the US and then the rest in the UK. I do not know how to feel about such high-profile fraud cases by banks and companies. Yes, someone should pay their debt, but maybe work on some arrangement across borders? I do not know, prosecute them together and let them serve in their home country. Cross border legal issues seem to be hard problem, especially between common law systems (UK, US) and civil law systems (almost all of Europe).
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Fair enough on the death penalty, but I don't see how that's relevant for any other crimes.
  - MrQuincle 9y ago
    It's already hard to understand the culture in a country. I see also the difficulty of handling administrative matters for my American wife, from taxes to mortgage contracts. Everything of course in a second language. Even people's gestures or their facial expressions are different. To have to navigate the juridicial system in another country is a huge disadvantage. You will make errors which a native will never make. You will not know about options that are very clear to long term citizens. Etc. Etc. All in all, whatever the crime, you would like to have everybody the same chance in your juridicial system. Foreigners will have a disadvantage however.
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      > To have to navigate the juridicial system in another country is a huge disadvantage. You will make errors which a native will never make. You will not know about options that are very clear to long term citizens. Etc. Etc. All of that is the lawyers' job, not the defendant's, and these guys will be able to hire very good local lawyers. No judicial system composed of humans can ever be perfectly fair and free of bias, but that doesn't mean we should let criminals go free.
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    because american prisons are shit to the point that prison rape is somehow a funny meme and joked about on tv, default sentences are ridiculously inflated, and people openly admit that you won't get justice unless you have money.
rbehrends 9y ago
America does not have to extradite its own nationals to Germany, either. From the US-German extradition treaty: Article 7 EXTRADITION OF NATIONALS (1) Neither of the Contracting Parties shall be bound to extradite its own nationals. The competent executive authority of the Requested State, however, shall have the power to grant the extradition of its own nationals if, in its discretion, this is deemed proper to do and provided the law of the Requested State does not so preclude. In fact, Germany has quite a few outstanding arrest warrants against US citizens, too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jan/31/usa.germany https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jan/31/usa.germany