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Does anyone have pointers on where I could get an estimate on average maintenence costs / flight hour & fuel costs for a Boeing 737-900ER? Interested in workin

by ethbro 9y ago

Does anyone have pointers on where I could get an estimate on average maintenence costs / flight hour & fuel costs for a Boeing 737-900ER? Interested in working up a rough number for how much this cost to make happen. Can't imagine it was profitable. And very cool! Edit: Per Boeing [1], they quote $151 / flight hour in actual service on a 737-800. Random site [2] gives fuel on a 737-900ER as 0.17 km per litre / 0.40 NM per gallon. Edit2: After some digging, here's the flight track: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA9671/history/20170821/1409Z/KPDX/KPDX https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA9671/history/20170821... [1] http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_15/costs_story.html#2 http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_15/costs_... [2] https://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopter-airplane/Boeing-737-900ER/29 https://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopter-airplane/Boeing-7...

danielvf 9y ago
A small sized business jet charters for about $1,000 an hour. I'd guess a long 737 would go for between $10,000 and $25,000 an hour. Edit: Here are some charter prices: http://www.aircharterguide.com/Aircraft/Manufacturer/BOEING http://www.aircharterguide.com/Aircraft/Manufacturer/BOEING
- KGIII 9y ago
  With charter, you skip the TSA. It can even make financial sense, of you're a group and were going to fly first class. Also, a buddy who has a plane time share is handy. Given where I live, I know a bunch of pilots. The time share plane was new to me. That's kinda need and not that expensive.
- sokoloff 9y ago
  Conklin and de Decker are a respected (though not perfect) source for variable operating costs for various airframes. They list the various BBJs (which are based on 737s) at $5360-$5749 per hour. https://www.conklindd.com/ReportTemp/ACEWebReports/_%20BBJ_%20BBJ%202_%20BBJ%203_2017082520125160.PDF https://www.conklindd.com/ReportTemp/ACEWebReports/_%20BBJ_%... BBJ3 is based on the 737-900ER
  - ethbro 9y ago
    Thanks! So that looks like ~$26,125 for a 4.75 hr flight in pure costs (fuel, plane and engine maintainence) exclusive of crew pay. If the numbers are totalling the line items above. So call it around $50k all included. Depreciation doesn't look like it's in that number either, but I'd say that's probably ignorable when you're as heavily utilized as a major carrier plane is. That seems like a good ballpark number for something a carrier would agree to. Not something to do every day, but arguably worth the PR and not going to torpedo the company either.
    - sokoloff 9y ago
      The CdD figures usually do include crew costs, so they attempt to be "all-in" numbers, minus cost of financing. The reason they're $0 on the report you're looking at is they're trying to sell you the report with the actual figures, not that those costs haven't been included. Crew rates for majors are published. Here's Alaska's: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/alaska_airlines http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/alaska_ai... Call the flight crew $300/hr, and the cabin crew probably another $150/hr.
      - ethbro 9y ago
        Ah, was confused as they lined them up below the total line, so was assuming they might break them out.
jrochkind1 9y ago
Of course it wasn't profitable, it was promotional. Compare to marketing budget for TV ads and such.
mikeash 9y ago
That $151/hour is only maintenance. Fuel, crew, and depreciation will add substantial amounts on top of that.
- bdamm 9y ago
  There's no way that a 737 costs $151/hr to maintain. Small, simple, 4 or 6 seat single-engined airplanes (albeit on the high end) cost that much. Commercial airliners are going to be in the thousands of dollars per hour.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    You're right. On closer examination, that's specifically airframe maintenance. So that would exclude engines and probably other important and expensive things.
    - ethbro 9y ago
      Good point. I was interested in how much Alaskan had to foot for pure curiousity reasons. I have no idea how much the actual cost of a flight is.
      - mikeash 9y ago
        I'm curious too. I wish I had something more concrete than "it's much higher than that." The best bet may be to look at charter prices, then divide by some small factor (2-4?) to account for profit margins and the better economies of scale an airline will have and such.
        KGIII 9y ago
        If you ping me tomorrow, I can try to get you those numbers. I know a bunch of pilots. They'll even let me fly the plane. I'm sure they will have some sources but it's too late to bug them tonight.
        deleted 9y ago
stordoff 9y ago
> Can't imagine it was profitable. The comments clarify that "This was an invite-only charter, special for the eclipse!", and the images show members of the press, so that was probably never the goal.

by ethbro 9y ago

danielvf 9y ago

A small sized business jet charters for about $1,000 an hour. I'd guess a long 737 would go for between $10,000 and $25,000 an hour. Edit: Here are some charter prices: http://www.aircharterguide.com/Aircraft/Manufacturer/BOEING http://www.aircharterguide.com/Aircraft/Manufacturer/BOEING

KGIII 9y ago
With charter, you skip the TSA. It can even make financial sense, of you're a group and were going to fly first class. Also, a buddy who has a plane time share is handy. Given where I live, I know a bunch of pilots. The time share plane was new to me. That's kinda need and not that expensive.
sokoloff 9y ago
Conklin and de Decker are a respected (though not perfect) source for variable operating costs for various airframes. They list the various BBJs (which are based on 737s) at $5360-$5749 per hour. https://www.conklindd.com/ReportTemp/ACEWebReports/_%20BBJ_%20BBJ%202_%20BBJ%203_2017082520125160.PDF https://www.conklindd.com/ReportTemp/ACEWebReports/_%20BBJ_%... BBJ3 is based on the 737-900ER
- ethbro 9y ago
  Thanks! So that looks like ~$26,125 for a 4.75 hr flight in pure costs (fuel, plane and engine maintainence) exclusive of crew pay. If the numbers are totalling the line items above. So call it around $50k all included. Depreciation doesn't look like it's in that number either, but I'd say that's probably ignorable when you're as heavily utilized as a major carrier plane is. That seems like a good ballpark number for something a carrier would agree to. Not something to do every day, but arguably worth the PR and not going to torpedo the company either.
  - sokoloff 9y ago
    The CdD figures usually do include crew costs, so they attempt to be "all-in" numbers, minus cost of financing. The reason they're $0 on the report you're looking at is they're trying to sell you the report with the actual figures, not that those costs haven't been included. Crew rates for majors are published. Here's Alaska's: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/alaska_airlines http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/alaska_ai... Call the flight crew $300/hr, and the cabin crew probably another $150/hr.
    - ethbro 9y ago
      Ah, was confused as they lined them up below the total line, so was assuming they might break them out.

jrochkind1 9y ago

Of course it wasn't profitable, it was promotional. Compare to marketing budget for TV ads and such.

mikeash 9y ago

That $151/hour is only maintenance. Fuel, crew, and depreciation will add substantial amounts on top of that.

bdamm 9y ago
There's no way that a 737 costs $151/hr to maintain. Small, simple, 4 or 6 seat single-engined airplanes (albeit on the high end) cost that much. Commercial airliners are going to be in the thousands of dollars per hour.
- mikeash 9y ago
  You're right. On closer examination, that's specifically airframe maintenance. So that would exclude engines and probably other important and expensive things.
  - ethbro 9y ago
    Good point. I was interested in how much Alaskan had to foot for pure curiousity reasons. I have no idea how much the actual cost of a flight is.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      I'm curious too. I wish I had something more concrete than "it's much higher than that." The best bet may be to look at charter prices, then divide by some small factor (2-4?) to account for profit margins and the better economies of scale an airline will have and such.
      - KGIII 9y ago
        If you ping me tomorrow, I can try to get you those numbers. I know a bunch of pilots. They'll even let me fly the plane. I'm sure they will have some sources but it's too late to bug them tonight.
        deleted 9y ago

stordoff 9y ago

> Can't imagine it was profitable. The comments clarify that "This was an invite-only charter, special for the eclipse!", and the images show members of the press, so that was probably never the goal.